An Inconvenient Truth

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Hog1

It IS a complex issue.
It is one of the MOST F..... up things in this country today. If it can be fixed, there is fault somewhere and needs to be addressed. As it is, it is a mess. Millions of Americans do without. If it can't be fixed, let's start over. Now, back to my original premise..............

REALISTIC solution is??????????

Realistic solution? Who knows, I'm not sure that there really is a realistic solution that will cure all the woes of the system. It's too far gone, it would need a complete reform which in all likelihood isn't realistic.

[FRPLG]

Let's not all forget that insurance companies are a business. Tbey exist to make money so of course costs get passed on to customers. Otherwise they wouldn't make money and wouldn't operate anymore. Then how would anyone afford healthcare when there are no insurance companies?

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Let's not all forget that insurance companies are a business. Tbey exist to make money so of course costs get passed on to customers. Otherwise they wouldn't make money and wouldn't operate anymore. Then how would anyone afford healthcare when there are no insurance companies?

Soooo, actually the insurance companies are.................the GOOD guys?

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Soooo, actually the insurance companies are.................the GOOD guys?

Why do there have to be good guys and bad guys? You think there are groups of people sitting around thinking "Hey lets stick it to our customers again!". No they are making money which is their job. Good or bad it is the way it is. Remember: money drives the whole issue both positively and negatively.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Why do there have to be good guys and bad guys? You think there are groups of people sitting around thinking "Hey lets stick it to our customers again!". No they are making money which is their job. Good or bad it is the way it is. Remember: money drives the whole issue both positively and negatively.

Honestly, I believe that with this kind of $$$ involved, and the types of profits being realized by the insurance companies, to surmise there are no bad guys reaping gigantic gains is rather naive. With money "driving the whole issue" you can.............."bank" on there being bad guys

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Honestly, I believe that with this kind of $$$ involved, and the types of profits being realized by the insurance companies, to surmise there are no bad guys reaping gigantic gains is rather naive. With money "driving the whole issue" you can.............."bank" on there being bad guys

No I don't think it naive. Notice I didn't there are bad guys but rather there aren't groups of these guys meeting on Friday night to play poker and figure out other devious ways to make money. There are bad guys everywhere in all walks of life. I think I just didn't make it clear that as far as insurance companies go they aren't really the bad guys in and of themselves. They exist to make money. Nothing else. Their service is designed to make them money. Making money isn't some nice little offshoot of it.

I come from the mindset that companies are in business to operate efficiently and make money. I think this because it is the ultimate motivation for them to do a good job(not that they do but at least the environment is created so that they can). When they have the motivation taken away them they don't even have the chance to do a good job because why would they?

I don't begrudge any company from making money. As it is, to me, there's no economic system that will satify the wants and needs of everyone without flaws. I think that is the main reason that there isn't a healthcare system in the world that works 100%

As bad as our system seems to work all the state run healthcare systems around world have problems that, while different from ours, are in most cases just as serious.

[firstdown]

I think you both are right and an insured should not complain when their Co. is making money that means that they can keep rates level and some may even take a rate decrease to drive more business toward them.

[MTK]

I've never denied that insurance companies are in the game to make money, of course they are. They're a business and that is the name of the game. But are they any worse than anybody else? It's my belief that they're not.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I've never denied that insurance companies are in the game to make money, of course they are. They're a business and that is the name of the game. But are they any worse than anybody else? It's my belief that they're not.

And I'd totally agree.

In a captalistic economy the name of the game is profit. It is the only true driving force behind business.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

And I'd totally agree.

In a captalistic economy the name of the game is profit. It is the only true driving force behind business.

The problem in the insurance business is that standard market forces aren't always at work. The supply/demand market process assumes buyer and seller of equal resources and/or knowledge. In insurance, the sellers have huge advantages in both resources and knowledge. Even with multiple insurance companies, there are monopolistic forces at work. Given the competition between local and national companies, insurers can (and do) act in very anti-capitalistic ways (e.g. take losses in one market or policy type so that they can make it a cheaper product to undercut competition).

Insurance regulation is one of the oldest regulatory functions of government. There is a reason for that.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

The problem in the insurance business is that standard market forces aren't always at work. The supply/demand market process assumes buyer and seller of equal resources and/or knowledge. In insurance, the sellers have huge advantages in both resources and knowledge. Even with multiple insurance companies, there are monopolistic forces at work. Given the competition between local and national companies, insurers can (and do) act in very anti-capitalistic ways (e.g. take losses in one market or policy type so that they can make it a cheaper product to undercut competition).

Insurance regulation is one of the oldest regulatory functions of government. There is a reason for that.

I see insurance Co. thats moving into an area that will cut their prices to pick up market share knowing that at some point that they will have to increase prices. I have seen them cut prices to pick up some of the market knowing that they will make money on other lines sold to te customer. They will also write policies in a strong market knowing that the customers may have a loss ratio higher than the premiums receivied but the INs. Co. will make money off the investment of the premiums. I have never seen them just take a loss to take market share from another co. but I guess it may happen. I just dont see why a company would want to grow off unprofitable business just to grow unless they are new to the area then that does happen.

[Hog1]

And I never suggested that they should not make money. I own my own business, and have for many years. I am quite familiar with the concept of making money. There are large groups of people getting fat on the backs of the American public in the insurance business. To think otherwise is....silly. Basically, the people that cannot afford to, are footing the bill. In many ways, your held hostage. Have to have it, but cannot afford to. I do not agree with that concept. Who's diriving the problem? There is plenty of blame to go around.
I look at it similar to the Federal Government. Like a juggernaut, one that continues to spiral out of control. Giving lip service to the public in place of services, you would expect.

[Hog1]

It should be an option available here as well. Many people are forced to "live" lives where actual life has ended years ago.
Calling Dr. Kevorkian

[MTK]

A little off topic here but the best advice I think anyone can give regarding insurance is to read your policy. Know exactly what you're buying, ask a million questions up front if you have to. I've seen so many instances of people simply not understanding their policy and their coverage limits and they want to blame the insurance company for their own ignorance. So again, read your policy!

[Hog1]

The insurance model is a simplistic model, and one easily understood. Basic Economic laws of supply, demand, and profitability fall in that category as well. To suggest that because something is legal, that it is also acceptable is incorrect.
Millions of Floridians have paid YEARS of premiums without making a claim (even though many could have). They have been rewarded with cancellation notices in the millions in this state, with NO good alternative (if any alternative) in sight. The norm seems to be a 500% increase in homeowners policies for those fortunate enough to retain one. What the insurance companies have done is........legal. That does not make it right. The action is easily understandable. The action is not easily palateable.
However, that was never my point.

My only real point is in the Health Ins market. That point is, that it is rife with ambiguity, and predatory sales techniques. Between the insurance companies, the physicians, the hospitals, etc, the truth of a matter can no longer be determined. Ask a question to all concerned, get numerous different answers. Conclusion....................it's a mess