Wynn restructures

[SmootSmack]

Remember how just a couple of months ago we had this huge thread about the Redskins signing DE Chris Wilson from the CFL, and now it's as if that never happened.

For better or worse, he is depth...for now

By the way, I'm calling it now. Watch out for DT Jared Clauss this summer

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Nope. They got old. Simple as that. Art Monk lost a step, Ryp wasn't on the same page with Sanders and Clark, while guys like Bostic, Jacoby, and Grimm had been there for 12+ years. That led to a stall in the running game when Byner stuggled to get past the 1000 yard mark for the season. The D was a little bit better, and really they guided the team to the playoffs that year.

But by 1993 the team had completely run out of gas. The window can close fast. Any player will tell you that. I've posted this before, but on a Redskins post game show last season Charles Mann was co-hosting. The subject came up as to how fast guys can go from being serviceable to old. When Mann signed with the 49ers, he said that he got old almost as quick as the flight from D.C. to San Fran.

I believe the same thing happened to the front four from '05 to '06. That's what scares me for this season.

You hit that one right on the money. But I'll tell you something. That was one of Gibbs/Pettibone's best coaching performacnes. The 92 team was not very good. I remember we didn't even score a TD for several games in a row that year. Rypien was just terrible and Gibbs refused to bench him. I went to the last game of the season that year against Oak. I watched 87 year old Vince Evans look like Dan Marino that day. And Rypien was just terrible and we lost and everyone thought the season was over. Then somebody beat somebody, we got in and beat Minn. on the road. And very easily could have won the next week in SF when the field was all messed up. The WR's dropped passes, Rypien missed guys, B.Mitch fumbled in a critical situation and we lost.

I think Gibbs saw the writing on the wall and that was part of the reason he left. He saw the team was old and needed to be completly rebuilt.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Remember how just a couple of months ago we had this huge thread about the Redskins signing DE Chris Wilson from the CFL, and now it's as if that never happened.

For better or worse, he is depth...for now

By the way, I'm calling it now. Watch out for DT Jared Clauss this summer

I didn't forget about the 240 DE from up North. He's the next Dwight Freeney.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I didn't forget about the 240 DE from up North. He's the next Dwight Freeney.

Damn straight!

[FRPLG]

What it comes down to is:

Can Wynn be replaced with someone who could do just as good a job for less money?

No one has presented any type of decent argument that he could.

Beem I never saw TMC say Wynn was "dominating". What he said was that for the price we were getting a leader and a guy who does a solid if unspectacular job. You seem to think we can magically find some "young and hungry" players to do the same thing and I would say to you that of all the DL taken in this years draft maybe 15 will ever be better than Wynn is now. Wynn is certainly only average but average is better than 50% of the league. There aren't some magical young players out there to come in and do what they want him to do while also offering the leadership.

I don't think he is off the hook I simply think many value some of his more intangible contributions while I think you are undervaluing his on field contributions.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

More succinct that I had put it.

[JoeRedskin]

I like Wynn.

I like to win.

I like Wynn to win.

If Wynn wins, the Skins win.

So we need Wynn to have the will to win.

As long as Wynn has the will to win, then Skins will win with Wynn, and when the Skins win with Wynn, then we win with Wynn.

So when Wynn has the will to win, Wynn wins and the Skins will to win, which they got from Wynn, will win for the Skins - then we will all win with Wynn.

And when we win with Wynn ....




Everybody gets laid.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I like Wynn.

I like to win.

I like Wynn to win.

If Wynn wins, the Skins win.

So we need Wynn to have the will to win.

As long as Wynn has the will to win, then Skins will win with Wynn, and when the Skins win with Wynn, then we win with Wynn.

So when Wynn has the will to win, Wynn wins and the Skins will to win, which they got from Wynn, will win for the Skins - then we will all win with Wynn.

And when we win with Wynn ....




Everybody gets laid.

This is why you're hot.

[freddyg12]

Don't know if I can adequately follow the last couple posts, but I'll try...

Wynn still has to make the team. We may have all kinds of competition for his spot once camp starts.

I want to keep Wynn for continuity's sake, and yes him being a leader is a big part of that. A lot of us on this site have griped about the Skins letting players go & not doing enough to keep our own players. I know Wynn is not a highly sought free agent that would command big $ on the market like Pierce & Smoot, & dock did, but he has been one of the most loyal to the team and can still play the run decently.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

What it comes down to is:

Can Wynn be replaced with someone who could do just as good a job for less money?

No one has presented any type of decent argument that he could.

Beem I never saw TMC say Wynn was "dominating". What he said was that for the price we were getting a leader and a guy who does a solid if unspectacular job. You seem to think we can magically find some "young and hungry" players to do the same thing and I would say to you that of all the DL taken in this years draft maybe 15 will ever be better than Wynn is now. Wynn is certainly only average but average is better than 50% of the league. There aren't some magical young players out there to come in and do what they want him to do while also offering the leadership.

I don't think he is off the hook I simply think many value some of his more intangible contributions while I think you are undervaluing his on field contributions.

The fact is, we won’t ever get to find out if someone less expensive could be found to replace Wynn because this team doesn’t see the need to get such a player. It’s my contention that just about any other team with a half-way decent front office could find someone who could give us more production. Now, judging by the record of this organization, I can actually understand how people here would doubt that this franchise could do it. My argument is, that player is out there – – whether Gibbs, Williams, or Cerrato can find him is another matter.

The “leadership” thing is overrated. We saw what Renaldo’s great locker room leadership got us last year. I think that’s more fanspeak. People throw around the “leadership” word without really ever stopping to examine exactly what it means. What counts is production on the field. If Wynn were the type of player that the fans here have spent over 80 posts trying to convince everyone that he really is, then he’d still be starting. I believe this is just another demonstration of blinding loyalty to a player whose mystical, yet bogus contributions in the locker room far exceed any rational observation of his actual abilities on the field.

And it’s exactly that type of mentality that keeps this team in the losing column. Too many people in Redskin Park (and apparently here at the Warpath) favor loyalty and “locker room leadership” over results.

That sort of mindset couldn’t cut it anywhere else.

[WillH]

I've seen alot of posts suggesting that we could pick someone up after June 1st cuts. Does anyone know of any possible prospects that may become available?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

The fact is, we won’t ever get to find out if someone less expensive could be found to replace Wynn because this team doesn’t see the need to get such a player. It’s my contention that just about any other team with a half-way decent front office could find someone who could give us more production. Now, judging by the record of this organization, I can actually understand how people here would doubt that this franchise could do it. My argument is, that player is out there – – whether Gibbs, Williams, or Cerrato can find him is another matter.

The “leadership” thing is overrated. We saw what Renaldo’s great locker room leadership got us last year. I think that’s more fanspeak. People throw around the “leadership” word without really ever stopping to examine exactly what it means. What counts is production on the field. If Wynn were the type of player that the fans here have spent over 80 posts trying to convince everyone that he really is, then he’d still be starting. I believe this is just another demonstration of blinding loyalty to a player whose mystical, yet bogus contributions in the locker room far exceed any rational observation of his actual abilities on the field.

And it’s exactly that type of mentality that keeps this team in the losing column. Too many people in Redskin Park (and apparently here at the Warpath) favor loyalty and “locker room leadership” over results.

That sort of mindset couldn’t cut it anywhere else.

Good post.

I still think Wynn has some value as a strategic, 15-20 snap guy used on rushing downs. I'm glad he restructured for the good of the team. He deserves the utmost respect from us.

But Beems is right, having guys like Wynn and Daniels around does NOT make it excusable to ignore your defensive line.

We have a plethora of average D Linemen. We need to add a stud to take the next step.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Again, like I think Matty said, it was just a down year for the entire D as a whole last year. But unlike some others have suggested, an ENTIRE team doesn't regress like in from one year to the next. It was key injuries and key losses (as well as "key" additions like AA) that made this defense poor.

We recouped Smoot, have some decent depth at DB and LB AND have a proven player in the middle, leaving Marshall to play back in his spot where he dominated in 2004.

TMC, it wasn't just one season. There was a sizable dropoff from 04 to 05 too defensively. Because we got a playoff spot, we approached 2006 optimistically. In hindsight, it makes total sense. We all expected the 2006 defense to be like the 2004, when all the evidence suggested a collapse.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by WillH

I've seen alot of posts suggesting that we could pick someone up after June 1st cuts. Does anyone know of any possible prospects that may become available?

I've asked this question a couple times, but no one has answered, so I am assuming that no one knows right now. It would be tough to tell at this point anyway due to the fact that none of these rookies for any team have been signed. We'll know more in late May I'm sure.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

By the way, I'm calling it now. Watch out for DT Jared Clauss this summer

Noted.