How Many Games Should Vick Be Suspended?

[saden1]

People want him suspended? For what? As far as the NFL goes, the only conduct he has committed that could lead to suspension was the incident where he gave the fans the middle finger and that incident has already been taken care of.

Until he is convicted the mob needs to get off Vick's dick.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by saden1

People want him suspended? For what? As far as the NFL goes, the only conduct he has committed that could lead to suspension was the incident where he gave the fans the middle finger and that incident has already been taken care of.

Until he is convicted the mob needs to get off Vick's dick.

Nice link.
Makes me even more convinced he is a horrible person.
In case you haven't noticed, the NFL did start a program which has consequences for actions like these...so you basically answered your own question of "for what". Your link is what for.

[RobH4413]

I knew this was going to happen. Once one guy gets caught, the hammer has to come down on everybody.

Apparently this sort of thing is really popular up in New York. Sources say that they are hours away from indicting the Manning brothers.

Authorities Discover Illegal Frog-Jumping Ring In Eli Manning's Backyard | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

[Crazyhorse1]

Until convicted, he shouldn't be suspended at all. He's innocent until proven guilty, so punishment shouldn't commence before a conviction. Judge Mountain Landis threw Joe Jackson out of baseball for life even though he was found innocent of charges in the Black Sox scandal. As far as I'm concerned, the Jackson punishment was grotesque, made in a particularly dark age, and was a lasting disgrace for Landis and a disgrace for baseball.

Nothing should happen to Vick until after a conviction. If he is convicted and serves his sentence, nothing should happen to him further. The commissioner's office should stay out of it, forever. Whether Atlanta wants Vick working for them now or after Vick serves a sentence should be entirely up to Atlanta.

If Vick is found quilty and and I were in charge in Atlanta, however, I would never take him back.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Nice link.
Makes me even more convinced he is a horrible person.
In case you haven't noticed, the NFL did start a program which has consequences for actions like these...so you basically answered your own question of "for what". Your link is what for.

So you want the NFL to legislate morality because you find his actions deplorable? Besides, all those offenses were in the past so the NFL can't retroactively suspend someone for their past actions.

As for his current plight, I'm of the opinion that this is a matter that first needs to clear the court system before any action by the NFL is warranted. If he is convicted or strikes a plea bargain I would expect nothing less than for him to get suspended one or more years.

I'll say it again, the mob needs to get off Vicks nuts.

[SouperMeister]

I would say 4 games, but as a first time offender of the league's discipline policy, Goodell may wait until after the trial to do anything. If guilty of the charges, it would not sit well that Vick lied right to the Commish's face at the draft in April.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

"But not even Vick disputes that he owns the property where, the feds say, 54 dogs were found, where equipment for training dogs was seized, where bloody carpeting and buried carcasses paint a clear picture."

Bloomberg.com: Opinion

Can one of the Vick apologists please explain why, if Vick is innocent, his property looks like a dog fighting business? What are the circumstances in which an innocent person would have such items?

Vick is guilty of at least harboring this kind of activity. It doesn't matter if he knew what was going on, or not -- he owns the property. I'm not saying he should go straight to sentencing, I respect due process. However, the NFL doesn't have to grant due process when deciding whether a player can participate in the league. It is clear that he is involved in some unethical, and possibly illegal, business. I don't think the NFL needs any more reason to take action.

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

"But not even Vick disputes that he owns the property where, the feds say, 54 dogs were found, where equipment for training dogs was seized, where bloody carpeting and buried carcasses paint a clear picture."

Bloomberg.com: Opinion

Can one of the Vick apologists please explain why, if Vick is innocent, his property looks like a dog fighting business? What are the circumstances in which an innocent person would have such items?

Vick is guilty of at least harboring this kind of activity. It doesn't matter if he knew what was going on, or not -- he owns the property. I'm not saying he should go straight to sentencing, I respect due process. However, the NFL doesn't have to grant due process when deciding whether a player can participate in the league. It is clear that he is involved in some unethical, and possibly illegal, business. I don't think the NFL needs any more reason to take action.

Good post. You know, it's actually kind of interesting because I'm starting to see some similarities with Pacman. Pacman hasn't been convicted of anything yet, but the fact that his entourage kept getting into fights and gunplay was enough to get him suspended without a conviction. Now, I understand that the distinction is that Pacman had a much more "interesting" track record, but why isn't it enough to look at what AT THE VERY LEAST Vick's family and friends were involved in on Vick's own property to suspend him? Even if Vick isn't found guilty, he's already at least as culpable in the NFL's eyes for being associated with illegal activity, No? I mean, they are both trying the same defense: "it wasn't me, it was my friends and I can't control them......I didn't know what was going on". It didn't work for Pacman in Goodell's eyes.
You've won me over.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

Good post. You know, it's actually kind of interesting because I'm starting to see some similarities with Pacman. Pacman hasn't been convicted of anything yet, but the fact that his entourage kept getting into fights and gunplay was enough to get him suspended without a conviction. Now, I understand that the distinction is that Pacman had a much more "interesting" track record, but why isn't it enough to look at what AT THE VERY LEAST Vick's family and friends were involved in on Vick's own property to suspend him? Even if Vick isn't found guilty, he's already at least as culpable in the NFL's eyes for being associated with illegal activity, No? I mean, they are both trying the same defense: "it wasn't me, it was my friends and I can't control them......I didn't know what was going on". It didn't work for Pacman in Goodell's eyes.
You've won me over.

Pacman is a completely different situation. He had arrests in college and has been charged for assault & battery, weapons charges, traffic charges and obstruction of justice. Until now Vick has never been CHARGED with anything. So now people should be suspended because of what other people do? Is that where we are going societally?

[PSUSkinsFan21]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Pacman is a completely different situation. He had arrests in college and has been charged for assault & battery, weapons charges, traffic charges and obstruction of justice. Until now Vick has never been CHARGED with anything. So now people should be suspended because of what other people do? Is that where we are going societally?

See post 87. And isn't that what Pacman got suspended for? He hasn't been found guilty of his latest crimes yet.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by PSUSkinsFan21

See post 87. And isn't that what Pacman got suspended for? He hasn't been found guilty of his latest crimes yet.

Charged is different than convicted. He's been CHARGED multiple times.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

"But not even Vick disputes that he owns the property where, the feds say, 54 dogs were found, where equipment for training dogs was seized, where bloody carpeting and buried carcasses paint a clear picture."

Bloomberg.com: Opinion

Can one of the Vick apologists please explain why, if Vick is innocent, his property looks like a dog fighting business? What are the circumstances in which an innocent person would have such items?

Vick is guilty of at least harboring this kind of activity. It doesn't matter if he knew what was going on, or not -- he owns the property. I'm not saying he should go straight to sentencing, I respect due process. However, the NFL doesn't have to grant due process when deciding whether a player can participate in the league. It is clear that he is involved in some unethical, and possibly illegal, business. I don't think the NFL needs any more reason to take action.

I'm not a Vick apologist, but I think that penalties levied by the team or the league need to be commensurate with the outcome of the charges. What if the league suspends him for a season or, as some have suggested, bans him for life and it turns out that the 'corrobrating witnesses' have fabricated or exaggerated their claims? Then what do you say, oops-sorry?

What if he truly owns the house but never visits and has no knowledge of what goes on there? Do I think that's the case? No, but I don't know for sure either way so I am not ready to exonerate or convict him until I hear the facts.

'Experts' have said that some of the items found on the property are items commonly owned by legitimate dog breeders. Without the bloody carpet, there probably would have been no reason to pursue the case, remember they went initially on a drug warrant and found no drugs but found the bloody carpet. Investigation of that led to the search that found the carcasses in the yard.

As I said, I'm not a Vick apologist and if guilty or plea I expect him to get prison time but the rush to punish without letting things run their course seems drastic.

Why the rush to suspend or ban him immediately before he has even set foot in a courtroom?

[irish]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I'm not a Vick apologist, but I think that penalties levied by the team or the league need to be commensurate with the outcome of the charges. What if the league suspends him for a season or, as some have suggested, bans him for life and it turns out that the 'corrobrating witnesses' have fabricated or exaggerated their claims? Then what do you say, oops-sorry?

What if he truly owns the house but never visits and has no knowledge of what goes on there? Do I think that's the case? No, but I don't know for sure either way so I am not ready to exonerate or convict him until I hear the facts.

'Experts' have said that some of the items found on the property are items commonly owned by legitimate dog breeders. Without the bloody carpet, there probably would have been no reason to pursue the case, remember they went initially on a drug warrant and found no drugs but found the bloody carpet. Investigation of that led to the search that found the carcasses in the yard.

As I said, I'm not a Vick apologist and if guilty or plea I expect him to get prison time but the rush to punish without letting things run their course seems drastic.

Why the rush to suspend or ban him immediately before he has even set foot in a courtroom?

The dog fighting stuff is only the tip of the iceberg. The real crux of the issue is that it looks like this dog fighting is part of an interstate gambling ring. Thats the main reason the Feds are involved. The Feds are not the LA district attys office, they dont waste their time on maybe cases. This is a done deal. Vick is finished because I am 100% sure the cousin living at the house has flipped on Vick. He will be the one that tells the tale on the others (including Vick).

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by irish

The dog fighting stuff is only the tip of the iceberg. The real crux of the issue is that it looks like this dog fighting is part of an interstate gambling ring. Thats the main reason the Feds are involved. The Feds are not the LA district attys office, they dont waste their time on maybe cases. This is a done deal. Vick is finished because I am 100% sure the cousin living at the house has flipped on Vick. He will be the one that tells the tale on the others (including Vick).

I agree the Feds are involved because it is multi-state but how does that supercede the mantra 'innocent until proven guilty'? Anyone with common sense acknowledges that something doesn't smell right, but why the rush to punish NOW? He's going to get his, so why the mob mentality to (figuratively) lynch him immediately instead of when the trial has run it's course?

[irish]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I agree the Feds are involved because it is multi-state but how does that supercede the mantra 'innocent until proven guilty'? Anyone with common sense acknowledges that something doesn't smell right, but why the rush to punish NOW? He's going to get his, so why the mob mentality to (figuratively) lynch him immediately instead of when the trial has run it's course?

This is called discussion and speculation. Last time I checked thats the whole point of this board. If we used your logic there would be nothing to discuss, debate or speculate on because we would have to wait for things to run their course. If that was the case Matty could just shut down this site and we could all find something else to do.