Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Nobody assumes they were future Hall of Famers. But might they have been more Anthony Montgomerys? More Golstons or Rock Cartwrights?

Maybe. Maybe not. I think to say the magnitude of those misses is "staggering" is a bit of hyperbole.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Because the original point of this mini-discussion here started when you disputed RajMahal's point that Gibbs has done a good job of finding and developing youth. So really the past four years isn't the true indicator of success in this case.

It's about the potential success we we have ahead of us with guys like Campbell, Moss, Portis, Cooley, Heyer, Alexander, Landry, Rocky, Rogers, Montgomery, Golston, Doughty, Blades (among others) leading the way.

So your overall record isn't a good indicator of your success? The players you acquire have no impact on those records?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

So your overall record isn't a good indicator of your success? The players you acquire have no impact on those records?

I guess you didn't understand my post. That's ok.

[MTK]

And regarding Williams and the job he has done, I think we have too quickly forgotten about last season and how disastrous it was due to just a few key injuries.

This year we've been hit even harder injury wise and the ship hasn't been knocked too far off course. I think that's a testament to the added depth in the back 7 and the development of guys like Rocky, Montgomery, and Andre Carter being a steady pass rushing threat.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by MTRedskinsFan

I noticed that SI.com also reported this story. I think the comments following the SI piece say a lot. Fans of other teams, especially NFC East teams, are praying Gibbs stays. A lot of other fans, including ones who have followed the Redskins for years, think the whole situation is laughable (in a bad way) at this point.

I kind of see both angles. Most Skins fans I hear away from this website think Gibbs' departure is overdue. The mistakes made in almost every facet of the organization have been appalling. I know a lot of noise was made about the "double time out" incident but some guys I know who have been Skins fans for 3 or 4 decades point out that a bigger picture w/ much bigger problems is the reality here. On the other hand, I also see that Gibbs brings something to the table, however intangible it may be. Maybe it's integrity, maybe stability, I don't really know.

Listening to all sides has given me some direction. Gibbs should probably stay but it seems insane, literally, for him to retain the position of head coach - even for '08. I think he can contribute in some important ways but it should be something easier, like GM or head of "Operations" or VP of Personnel. I gues I really hope he extends but in a different role.

Gibbs certainly does bring something to the table which is more than anyone could say for you. You are a supercillious bore. I'm tired of being polite with these know nothings. It's crunch time and anyone here who doesn't throw their full support behind this team will get a merciless rhetorical beating from me and oh I how I long to bring it.

[Beemnseven]

It's my contention that Joe Gibbs' abilities with regard to finding and developing youth, or making sound personnel decisions that help the team are just not his strong suits. That some people here are beside themselves when faced with this opinion is amusing to say the least.

The 'success' of individual players doesn't help us much when the records they've compiled add up to a losing record. So yes, I have a hard time trying to fathom how successful you've been at building a team when you are faced with the possibility of three losing seasons out of four.

Now, if you want to talk about "potential", fine. Potentially, Campbell, Landry, Alexander, Heyer, can be enshrined in the Hall of Fame one day. They also have the potential to flame out and go the way of Timmy Smith. Who knows? That's why I say Jason Campbell is still a question mark. Cooley has done real good, and McIntosh (assuming he comes back full strength in '09) is coming along nicely. But again, going back to the questionable personnel moves -- they were all twice the price.

Ugh. We can go on and on with this. Let's just say I'm ecstatic that we have all of our 2008 draft picks and I hope Gibbs doesn't F them up.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

And regarding Williams and the job he has done, I think we have too quickly forgotten about last season and how disastrous it was due to just a few key injuries.

This year we've been hit even harder injury wise and the ship hasn't been knocked too far off course. I think that's a testament to the added depth in the back 7 and the development of guys like Rocky, Montgomery, and Andre Carter being a steady pass rushing threat.

I beg to differ that we were 'hit harder' on defense this year.. Last year Springs missed almost the entire season, Marshall was banged up all year and ineffective, Griffin missed significant time, Prielou (sp) was gone all season.. This year, aside from Taylor (which is significant obviously), we've been without Rogers (no bog loss IMO) for half the season, Washington for 3 games, Smoot for one and who else? We've been relatively healthy on defense this season..

If anything we can credit Gibbs for addressing the depth issues we had in the offseason but the bloom is off the Grilliams rose for me..

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Mark Brunell, Clinton Portis, and the defense were all significantly responsible for our 5 game winning streak at the end of the 2005 season that got us into the playoffs.

This shouldn't even be debatable.

edit,wrong info posted

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by Bill B

But Matty one thing about the cap is that if you continually restructure contracts you put further pressure on the caps in future years - kind of reminds me of the US and the way we deal with the deficit. Yes we can continue to print money and buy our way out of debt for the current year but eventually the US is going to have to pay the piper and deal with the huge debt. So relating to the Skins - yes the Skins can continue to restructure contracts to get under the cap but wouldn't it be nice to not have to constantly have to do this and free up the teams abillity to sign better depth players?

good post

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

not debatable? I beg to differ,Brunell didnt even play in one of those wins,he did have 1 good game out of the 4 he played,4 tds against dallas and a whopping 163 yrds passing,the other 3 games were a combined 2 tds,4 ints,419yrds passing.If you think 1 decent game out of 5 is significant then I guess it isnt debatable,but since he only actually played in 4,that averages out to 4 good games in a 16 game schedule,that sounds about right for brunell

No. He played in all those wins. He did come out of the Giants game after a cheap shot to his knee but the Redskins were already winning the game. Your attempt to deceive your fellow Warpathers and to undermine the cause has been duly noted. Everyone needs to get behind Coach Gibbs and the Redskins or suffer verbal humiliation at my hands.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by ptracy20

I really hope you guys are kidding. Regardless of what happens this year Joe needs to go. I much as I respect him for what he has done in the past he still needs to go. Poor clock management, poor play calling, poor use of time outs and challenges that cost us timeouts have all been a problem in his four years. Look at this collectively over 4 years not just when we win a couple of games in a row.

good post

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

No. He played in all those wins. He did come out of the Giants game after a cheap shot to his knee but the Redskins were already winning the game. Your attempt to deceive your fellow Warpathers and to undermine the cause has been duly noted. Everyone needs to get behind Coach Gibbs and the Redskins or suffer verbal humiliation at my hands.

wasnt trying to decieve,didnt read the fine print,you are correct,he did play,I apologize for the misprint,but I still think Brunell sucks and will never be convinced otherwise

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

wasnt trying to decieve,didnt read the fine print,you are correct,he did play,I apologize for the misprint,but I still think Brunell sucks and will never be convinced otherwise

If you throw all your spiritual support behind Our Beloved Redskins at this crucial hour, you may find forgiveness. Now is the acceptable time for all Redskins apostates to throw themselves upon the altar of forgiveness and swear allegiance to This Team. This is the your last chance. Do it Now!

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well, as I've been saying for months (if not years). I think the only person who should decide if he comes back is Gibbs himself. Personally, I want him back because he's probably the biggest reason (next to my brother) that I'm a fan of the team and he's the best thing to ever happen to the franchise. But I also don't think he should feel he owes the fans anything or has to prove anything to anyone. So if he chooses to step aside, I'm ok with that. He's earned the right to do whatever he wants.

I agree with 99 percent of this post,I do think Joe has earned the right to finish out this contract if he wants,I dont agree with Joe extending his contract by 3 yrs because of past success,it should be based on his success the 2nd time around

[pg86]

Originally Posted by mheisig

I agree.