Coach Gibbs might consider extending stay.

[MTK]

So all you can point out is 6 success stories in 4 years?

I'm not talking about just the draft either.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

So all you can point out is 6 success stories in 4 years?

How does the possibility of a 30-34 record over four seasons translate into "success" ?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

How does the possibility of a 30-34 record over four seasons translate into "success" ?

Because the original point of this mini-discussion here started when you disputed RajMahal's point that Gibbs has done a good job of finding and developing youth. So really the past four years isn't the true indicator of success in this case.

It's about the potential success we we have ahead of us with guys like Campbell, Moss, Portis, Cooley, Heyer, Alexander, Landry, Rocky, Rogers, Montgomery, Golston, Doughty, Blades (among others) leading the way.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Because the original point of this mini-discussion here started when you disputed RajMahal's point that Gibbs has done a good job of finding and developing youth. So really the past four years isn't the true indicator of success in this case.

It's about the potential success we we have ahead of us with guys like Campbell, Moss, Portis, Cooley, Heyer, Alexander, Landry, Rocky, Rogers, Montgomery, Golston, Doughty, Blades (among others) leading the way.

So your overall record isn't a good indicator of your success? The players you acquire have no impact on those records?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

So your overall record isn't a good indicator of your success? The players you acquire have no impact on those records?

I guess you didn't understand my post. That's ok.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

How does the possibility of a 30-34 record over four seasons translate into "success" ?

I'm talking about individual players that we can either deem a good player (success) or bad player (failure). I'm looking at personnel only, I'm not talking about records.

[SmootSmack]

For some reason, everyone assumes that we sacrificed future Hall of Famer when we traded away those 3rd and 4th round picks. That's a huge assumption to make

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

For some reason, everyone assumes that we sacrificed future Hall of Famer when we traded away those 3rd and 4th round picks. That's a huge assumption to make

Nobody assumes they were future Hall of Famers. But might they have been more Anthony Montgomerys? More Golstons or Rock Cartwrights?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Nobody assumes they were future Hall of Famers. But might they have been more Anthony Montgomerys? More Golstons or Rock Cartwrights?

Maybe. Maybe not. I think to say the magnitude of those misses is "staggering" is a bit of hyperbole.

[MTK]

And regarding Williams and the job he has done, I think we have too quickly forgotten about last season and how disastrous it was due to just a few key injuries.

This year we've been hit even harder injury wise and the ship hasn't been knocked too far off course. I think that's a testament to the added depth in the back 7 and the development of guys like Rocky, Montgomery, and Andre Carter being a steady pass rushing threat.

[Beemnseven]

It's my contention that Joe Gibbs' abilities with regard to finding and developing youth, or making sound personnel decisions that help the team are just not his strong suits. That some people here are beside themselves when faced with this opinion is amusing to say the least.

The 'success' of individual players doesn't help us much when the records they've compiled add up to a losing record. So yes, I have a hard time trying to fathom how successful you've been at building a team when you are faced with the possibility of three losing seasons out of four.

Now, if you want to talk about "potential", fine. Potentially, Campbell, Landry, Alexander, Heyer, can be enshrined in the Hall of Fame one day. They also have the potential to flame out and go the way of Timmy Smith. Who knows? That's why I say Jason Campbell is still a question mark. Cooley has done real good, and McIntosh (assuming he comes back full strength in '09) is coming along nicely. But again, going back to the questionable personnel moves -- they were all twice the price.

Ugh. We can go on and on with this. Let's just say I'm ecstatic that we have all of our 2008 draft picks and I hope Gibbs doesn't F them up.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

And regarding Williams and the job he has done, I think we have too quickly forgotten about last season and how disastrous it was due to just a few key injuries.

This year we've been hit even harder injury wise and the ship hasn't been knocked too far off course. I think that's a testament to the added depth in the back 7 and the development of guys like Rocky, Montgomery, and Andre Carter being a steady pass rushing threat.

I beg to differ that we were 'hit harder' on defense this year.. Last year Springs missed almost the entire season, Marshall was banged up all year and ineffective, Griffin missed significant time, Prielou (sp) was gone all season.. This year, aside from Taylor (which is significant obviously), we've been without Rogers (no bog loss IMO) for half the season, Washington for 3 games, Smoot for one and who else? We've been relatively healthy on defense this season..

If anything we can credit Gibbs for addressing the depth issues we had in the offseason but the bloom is off the Grilliams rose for me..

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I beg to differ that we were 'hit harder' on defense this year.. Last year Springs missed almost the entire season, Marshall was banged up all year and ineffective, Griffin missed significant time, Prielou (sp) was gone all season.. This year, aside from Taylor (which is significant obviously), we've been without Rogers (no bog loss IMO) for half the season, Washington for 3 games, Smoot for one and who else? We've been relatively healthy on defense this season..

If anything we can credit Gibbs for addressing the depth issues we had in the offseason but the bloom is off the Grilliams rose for me..

I'd argue the impact of Taylor's death has far exceeded any injury we had last year. And I definitely don't agree that Rogers was no big loss.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'd argue the impact of Taylor's death has far exceeded any injury we had last year. And I definitely don't agree that Rogers was no big loss.

I agree with you on Taylor 100% but that has been less than 1/4 of the season (really it's been 3 games, in which we've been 2-1).. We'll agree to disagree on Rogers.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I agree with you on Taylor 100% but that has been less than 1/4 of the season (really it's been 3 games, in which we've been 2-1).. We'll agree to disagree on Rogers.

Rogers' loss is significant if only for the fact it bumped everyone else up the depth chart. If Rogers was healthy we might not have been subjected to Leigh Torrence seeing significant action.