Our WRs in 2009... My Thoughts

[WaldSkins]

Per JLC:

Rookie Devin Thomas has not endeared himself to coaches and teammates with his attitude and work ethic. With a swagger that was not backed up by his play, he did not do enough to get himself physically and mentally ready to play, and many in the organization wonder if he ever will. He could be surly, he enjoyed the nightlife and he never made any real strides toward becoming a regular part of the offense. He continually ran poor routes - often three yards or more too deep or too shallow - which is a massive difference in an intricate precision system. He didn't do nearly enough to earn the confidence of the quarterbacks. He was drafted to be the bigger, deep threat to complement Moss on the opposite side, replacing Brandon Lloyd, and ended up being similar to Lloyd in far too many ways. Thomas has already talked about the need to get away from football for a while, which, for as little as he played, is alarming. He needs to work his tail off all offseason to be ready to help this team.


Great to here from this POS. I guess aging vets aren't the only ones just collecting a check around here.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

Per JLC:

Rookie Devin Thomas has not endeared himself to coaches and teammates with his attitude and work ethic. With a swagger that was not backed up by his play, he did not do enough to get himself physically and mentally ready to play, and many in the organization wonder if he ever will. He could be surly, he enjoyed the nightlife and he never made any real strides toward becoming a regular part of the offense. He continually ran poor routes - often three yards or more too deep or too shallow - which is a massive difference in an intricate precision system. He didn't do nearly enough to earn the confidence of the quarterbacks. He was drafted to be the bigger, deep threat to complement Moss on the opposite side, replacing Brandon Lloyd, and ended up being similar to Lloyd in far too many ways. Thomas has already talked about the need to get away from football for a while, which, for as little as he played, is alarming. He needs to work his tail off all offseason to be ready to help this team.


Great to here from this POS. I guess aging vets aren't the only ones just collecting a check around here.

JLC also said the Redskins should have drafted Eddie Royal who "fit the mold of the big, target reciever they were seeking" Really? He did, did he? The 5'10" 180 lb. Royal was just what they needed in a big receiver to complement the 5'10" 185 lb. Antwaan Randle El and the 5'10" 200 lb. Santana Moss?

Yeah, this is why people think JLC is a joke.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

JLC also said the Redskins should have drafted Eddie Royal who "fit the mold of the big, target reciever they were seeking" Really? He did, did he? The 5'10" 180 lb. Royal was just what they needed in a big receiver to complement the 5'10" 185 lb. Antwaan Randle El and the 5'10" 200 lb. Santana Moss?

Yeah, this is why people think JLC is a joke.

I was thinking the same exact thing. Imagine how much the FO would have been ripped if they drafted Royal or DeSean Jackson? By the way, the other 'big' WR that we were considering in the draft James Hardy had 9 catches for 87 yards.

If this front office traded for a healthy Tom Brady JLC would criticize them for him being a character risk for having a baby out of wedlock.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I was thinking the same exact thing. Imagine how much the FO would have been ripped if they drafted Royal or DeSean Jackson? By the way, the other 'big' WR that we were considering in the draft James Hardy had 9 catches for 87 yards.

If this front office traded for a healthy Tom Brady JLC would criticize them for him being a character risk for having a baby out of wedlock.

Wide Receiver seems like such a situational position to me. Kelly could have probably gone to Denver and put up the same stats as Eddie Royal, Thomas could have probably gone to Philly and produced like DeSean Jackson and DeSean Jackson could have come here and been inactive most of the year (due to poor attitude and excessive clubbing). Hardy's got talent, but the Bills offense might be as dysfunctional as ours.

It just seems that WR stats fluctuate wildly based on circumstance. Look when Welker goes to NE, Moss goes to Oakland, Roddy White gets a new QB, Santana is all over the map, etc.)

I just find it hard to believe that we whiffed completely on Kelly, Thomas and Davis. With our offense being one of the worst in the league, I don't see how we could have done any worse with those guys on the field. And like I've said many times, there are ways to move the ball and score points without relying heavily on receivers (San Diego, Miami, Baltimore, KC, for many years, etc.).

I'm more inclined to point to other factors, such as poor coaching and development, poor pass protection and/or poor QB play (hard to tell for sure what's to blame), and poor play calling.

And it's not just with rookies. We take guys like Brandon Lloyd and David Patten and get little to no production out of them (New Orleans and Chicago got at least marginal production from both of them). There are systemic problems with the Skins than supercede any deficiencies with the players.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Wide Receiver seems like such a situational position to me. Kelly could have probably gone to Denver and put up the same stats as Eddie Royal, Thomas could have probably gone to Philly and produced like DeSean Jackson and DeSean Jackson could have come here and been inactive most of the year (due to poor attitude and excessive clubbing). Hardy's got talent, but the Bills offense might be as dysfunctional as ours.

It just seems that WR stats fluctuate wildly based on circumstance. Look when Welker goes to NE, Moss goes to Oakland, Roddy White gets a new QB, Santana is all over the map, etc.)

I just find it hard to believe that we whiffed completely on Kelly, Thomas and Davis. With our offense being one of the worst in the league, I don't see how we could have done any worse with those guys on the field. And like I've said many times, there are ways to move the ball and score points without relying heavily on receivers (San Diego, Miami, Baltimore, KC, for many years, etc.).

I'm more inclined to point to other factors, such as poor coaching and development, poor pass protection and/or poor QB play (hard to tell for sure what's to blame), and poor play calling.

And it's not just with rookies. We take guys like Brandon Lloyd and David Patten and get little to no production out of them (New Orleans and Chicago got at least marginal production from both of them). There are systemic problems with the Skins than supercede any deficiencies with the players.

Great post. IMO it comes right down to some of the things you mentioned. Poor coaching/ play calling, up and down QB play. Davis was the best TE in college last year yet we can't even get him on the field. Then I watch Philly over the weekend and McNabb is throwing to some TE that I've never seen or heard of.

While I was watching the Philly game and really could not believe that McNabb gets it done with the current group... guys like Curtis, Avery, Brown, Jackson and some no name TE. Actually I think Jackson is the best of the group and he's a rookie. And Reid has so much confidence in McNabb that he's calling pass plays from shotgun on their own 3 yard line. After watching Philly over the weekend I'd almost be more inclined to fire Zorn if I were Snyder.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

Per JLC:

Rookie Devin Thomas has not endeared himself to coaches and teammates with his attitude and work ethic. With a swagger that was not backed up by his play, he did not do enough to get himself physically and mentally ready to play, and many in the organization wonder if he ever will. He could be surly, he enjoyed the nightlife and he never made any real strides toward becoming a regular part of the offense. He continually ran poor routes - often three yards or more too deep or too shallow - which is a massive difference in an intricate precision system. He didn't do nearly enough to earn the confidence of the quarterbacks. He was drafted to be the bigger, deep threat to complement Moss on the opposite side, replacing Brandon Lloyd, and ended up being similar to Lloyd in far too many ways. Thomas has already talked about the need to get away from football for a while, which, for as little as he played, is alarming. He needs to work his tail off all offseason to be ready to help this team.


Great to here from this POS. I guess aging vets aren't the only ones just collecting a check around here.

I was about to post this too. While JLC is definitely wrong about Royal's size, Royal did lead the combine wr's in the bench press, he's strong and doesn't get knocked off balance at the line. More importantly perhaps, Royal is by all accounts a great guy & was eager to learn. Everybody at VT always praised him & spoke of how humble he is. Brandon Stokely said he got a call from Royal right after the draft & he was asking the vet reciever for advice on learning the playbook. Gibbs might've jumped on this guy had he been here, he's got all the personal traits for success it seems.

I don't expect anyone to have the same "character" standards as Joe Gibbs, but in this case I really hope DT isn't as much of a problem as JLC says he is. I know JLC gets bashed here for some of his opinions (and sometimes errors), but over time I don't think he puts anything in print about a player's work ethic & character until he's got a good body of evidence. Take a look at his writing about Loyd e.g.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

Brandon Stokely said he got a call from Royal right after the draft & he was asking the vet reciever for advice on learning the playbook.

Good post. The statement above, if true, helps illistrate an important point about the role of system and coaching in player success.
The Broncos system has been in place forever. Its not new.
Although they have a new WR coach the all the other coaching staff knows the system, the HC, the OC, assistants etc.

They also have veterans that can help the rookies learn the playbook.
The Skins offense is new. Its new to the OC, its new to the WR coach, its new to the rest of the staff and the assistants. Its also new to our veterans. Moss and ARE can't help the rookies as much as Stoley could help Royal b/c they were learning the playbook themselves.

Our young guys will catch, remember its a new system.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

I was about to post this too. While JLC is definitely wrong about Royal's size, Royal did lead the combine wr's in the bench press, he's strong and doesn't get knocked off balance at the line. More importantly perhaps, Royal is by all accounts a great guy & was eager to learn. Everybody at VT always praised him & spoke of how humble he is. Brandon Stokely said he got a call from Royal right after the draft & he was asking the vet reciever for advice on learning the playbook. Gibbs might've jumped on this guy had he been here, he's got all the personal traits for success it seems.

I don't expect anyone to have the same "character" standards as Joe Gibbs, but in this case I really hope DT isn't as much of a problem as JLC says he is. I know JLC gets bashed here for some of his opinions (and sometimes errors), but over time I don't think he puts anything in print about a player's work ethic & character until he's got a good body of evidence. Take a look at his writing about Loyd e.g.

Well, at least we've got the 4th WR position filled through 2011. That's got to be worth something, right?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Well, at least we've got the 4th WR position filled through 2011. That's got to be worth something, right?

I hope!
I'm not trying to bash Vinny's choices. Well, maybe I am w/Kelly's knees if it's true that the med. staff red flagged it. I thought Thomas was a relative steal where we got him & was certainly worth taking a chance on. I do think it's obvious that the jury is still out on these guys. We didn't see enough in 08 to show us that they'll become playmakers.

I trust JLC's reporting about Thomas' behavior, as I don't think he would write it if he didn't have good info after a full season. Sounds like the guy has a lot of personal maturing to do, hope that he can do that here in DC & be at least a dependable starter for us.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

I hope!
I'm not trying to bash Vinny's choices. Well, maybe I am w/Kelly's knees if it's true that the med. staff red flagged it. I thought Thomas was a relative steal where we got him & was certainly worth taking a chance on. I do think it's obvious that the jury is still out on these guys. We didn't see enough in 08 to show us that they'll become playmakers.

I trust JLC's reporting about Thomas' behavior, as I don't think he would write it if he didn't have good info after a full season. Sounds like the guy has a lot of personal maturing to do, hope that he can do that here in DC & be at least a dependable starter for us.

The general rule of thumb for selecting an underclassman is this: "If player x were to play (hypothetically) his senior season, and post mediocre numbers relative to the offense he plays in, would we still draft him where we are drafting him now?"

And the answer on Thomas was a very obvious no. One great season followed up by a return to reality a second round receiver does not make. The assumption that a year he started as Michigan State's second target, and caught a bunch of people by surprise en route to a 100+ reception season (literally out of no where), and this was a reflection of his actual value was nothing but wishful thinking and poor evaluation by the draft analysts, who tried to use the combine numbers to justify the poor reasoning.

Malcolm Kelly, on the other hand, is probably still a top two round selection in 2009 simply by virtue of staying healthy for 12 games in 2008. So, health aside, Kelly passes the hypothetical above.

And obviously, as a Senior, Fred Davis doesn't apply because he played out his eligibility, and gave us a pretty good idea who he was coming out of the draft. I'm not sure that he screamed first round prospect, but Davis has in no way underachieved in his first season, IMO.

[LandrySlice]

Also remember, Thomas only played one year of real college football. He will continue to get better the more he practices with JC, and learns tricks of the trade from the veteran recievers. I feel that he will make great strides this year, and by year 3 will be looking like what everyone seems to have been expecting in year one. This is the first year in a long time I remember so many rookie WR's making an instant impact on thier team. It is disapointing that we didin't get to enjoy the same breakout rookies like the Eagles, Cowboys, etc, but if we can get long term success with these rookie guys, we will be in great shape for the future!

[SmootSmack]

Just read JLC's review of the DEs where he knocks the Redskins for not thinking Gaines Adams was a sexy enough pick. He doesn't even mention the fact that Adams was drafted before the Redskins drafted anyway. Perfect example of what I meant in another thread when I said sometimes people make stuff up just to bash the Redskins Front Office

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Just read JLC's review of the DEs where he knocks the Redskins for not thinking Gaines Adams was a sexy enough pick. He doesn't even mention the fact that Adams was drafted before the Redskins drafted anyway. Perfect example of what I meant in another thread when I said sometimes people make stuff up just to bash the Redskins Front Office

A real front office would have given Tampa or Detroit way, way too much to trade up and get a non-sexy pick like Adams! I don't know why we don't just trade entire future drafts for non-sexy defensive ends.

[GoSkins!]

Jason Campbell made a comment about how James Thrash was "always in the right place, never misses an assignment" when someone was talking to him about his WR's. Don't remember exactly, but it seemed like he was explaining why Thrash was on the field in crucial situations instead of the rookie "playmakers". What I heard was Jason Campbell calling someone out (you know who you are Devin) for acting like learning the playbook and route running is to hard even though the old man (Thrash) can do it with no problem.

Until these guys wake up and accept that they have to think, use thier own brain, and apply themselves they won't ever be any more than "potentially" good.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

Jason Campbell made a comment about how James Thrash was "always in the right place, never misses an assignment" when someone was talking to him about his WR's. Don't remember exactly, but it seemed like he was explaining why Thrash was on the field in crucial situations instead of the rookie "playmakers". What I heard was Jason Campbell calling someone out (you know who you are Devin) for acting like learning the playbook and route running is to hard even though the old man (Thrash) can do it with no problem.

Until these guys wake up and accept that they have to think, use thier own brain, and apply themselves they won't ever be any more than "potentially" good.

Wow, and he could only get him 9 recp. for the year.