The Real Problem of the Redskins ...

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

... also one could rehash the whole GD travesty surrounding Gregg Williams... I've beat that horse dead a few times already and won't repeat my same old blatherings but it is still significant IMO (if for no other reason that Williams is extremely well respected around the league and it's obvious to all but a few he was smeared by Snyder and/or his people). I mean really, does anyone think the great coaches should have any respect for Snyder or want to give him a chance?

What travesty is that? Did the Snyder smear cause him to get fired in Jacksonville also? The legend of GW is greatly exaggerated. He did a nice job statistically a few seasons, but we were never a game changing defense. Never had a lot of sacks, turnovers or defensive TD, things that actually matter on the field rather than in the paper.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

What travesty is that? Did the Snyder smear cause him to get fired in Jacksonville also? The legend of GW is greatly exaggerated. He did a nice job statistically a few seasons, but we were never a game changing defense. Never had a lot of sacks, turnovers or defensive TD, things that actually matter on the field rather than in the paper.

From an old thread I started:

I'll admit upfront I was one of the few Skins fans who really, really believed Gregg Williams should have been promoted to HC within about 24 hrs of Gibbs retirement. As the JLC article (link below) points out, and I think we all knew it whether we liked or disliked Williams, the man who took this defense from an abomination to a top 10 d for three of his four years held immense respect from players, coaches and staff. I think it spoke volumes when players (from both sides of the ball if memory serves) expressed disappointment that he was not retained as the team's leader.

I'll also admit I thought Saunders deserved, based on the preponderance of evidence his long career makes available, the opportunity to be sole commander of the offensive scheme/playcalling for at least one full year. We will remember JC got the opportunity to observe at the end of last season how Saunders offense could engender some real success, and to boot w/ a less talented QB in Collins at the helm.

Snyder clearly chose to take the team in a very different direction, and I'm not just spewing sour grapes here... just give this another thought. As I've gotten more and more sick to my stomach at what has happened to the team I've searched out old articles, reread a lot of material. The JLC article I linked really struck me in January; however the following excitement of Zorn's hire put it to the back of my mind.

Gregg Williams - Expect Him To Withdraw Saturday - Redskins Insider

When I read it again (yesterday and about 10 times since) it strikes me even more. With Gibbs, the coach w/ the highest character any of us can think of, still packing his things at Redskins Park Snyder had already regressed into the immature, characterless goon he was 4 years earlier. While my heart goes out to nearly all of the players and most of the coaches (and us fans) over what has happened, I believe Snyder deserves the worst franchise in football. The smear campaign was a testament to his utter lack of decency, and while I don't really believe in Karma either... we reap what we sow.

Just don't mistake me. I have all the hope in the world Zorn has great success as our HC... my point (the forest through the trees as I see it) is beyond Zorn I doubt very much a quality, high-character guy will go to work for Snyder. Curious to know what you think...

Here's the actual link: Gregg Williams - Expect Him To Withdraw Saturday - Redskins Insider

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

From an old thread I started:

I'll admit upfront I was one of the few Skins fans who really, really believed Gregg Williams should have been promoted to HC within about 24 hrs of Gibbs retirement. As the JLC article (link below) points out, and I think we all knew it whether we liked or disliked Williams, the man who took this defense from an abomination to a top 10 d for three of his four years held immense respect from players, coaches and staff. I think it spoke volumes when players (from both sides of the ball if memory serves) expressed disappointment that he was not retained as the team's leader.

I'll also admit I thought Saunders deserved, based on the preponderance of evidence his long career makes available, the opportunity to be sole commander of the offensive scheme/playcalling for at least one full year. We will remember JC got the opportunity to observe at the end of last season how Saunders offense could engender some real success, and to boot w/ a less talented QB in Collins at the helm.

Snyder clearly chose to take the team in a very different direction, and I'm not just spewing sour grapes here... just give this another thought. As I've gotten more and more sick to my stomach at what has happened to the team I've searched out old articles, reread a lot of material. The JLC article I linked really struck me in January; however the following excitement of Zorn's hire put it to the back of my mind.

Gregg Williams - Expect Him To Withdraw Saturday - Redskins Insider

When I read it again (yesterday and about 10 times since) it strikes me even more. With Gibbs, the coach w/ the highest character any of us can think of, still packing his things at Redskins Park Snyder had already regressed into the immature, characterless goon he was 4 years earlier. While my heart goes out to nearly all of the players and most of the coaches (and us fans) over what has happened, I believe Snyder deserves the worst franchise in football. The smear campaign was a testament to his utter lack of decency, and while I don't really believe in Karma either... we reap what we sow.

Just don't mistake me. I have all the hope in the world Zorn has great success as our HC... my point (the forest through the trees as I see it) is beyond Zorn I doubt very much a quality, high-character guy will go to work for Snyder. Curious to know what you think...

Here's the actual link: Gregg Williams - Expect Him To Withdraw Saturday - Redskins Insider

I remember all of the Grilliams drama, but I still don't see where he was (as Emmitt Smith would say) travestied. He didn't get the job. He interviewed for it and obviously they saw something in the 4 years he was here to make them not assured he was the man they wanted. He proceeded to be one and done in Jacksonville with a TON of talent on defense.

If Zorn doesn't make it, I believe that will be the sign that Snyder will finally recognize that his way isn't working and he will give full reign and control to Shanahan (because Cowher and Holmgren aren't coming here) and back away.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I remember all of the Grilliams drama, but I still don't see where he was (as Emmitt Smith would say) travestied. He didn't get the job. He interviewed for it and obviously they saw something in the 4 years he was here to make them not assured he was the man they wanted. He proceeded to be one and done in Jacksonville with a TON of talent on defense.

If Zorn doesn't make it, I believe that will be the sign that Snyder will finally recognize that his way isn't working and he will give full reign and control to Shanahan (because Cowher and Holmgren aren't coming here) and back away.

Why is Shanahan the favorite name dropped as of late (just out of curiosity)?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I remember all of the Grilliams drama, but I still don't see where he was (as Emmitt Smith would say) travestied. He didn't get the job. He interviewed for it and obviously they saw something in the 4 years he was here to make them not assured he was the man they wanted. He proceeded to be one and done in Jacksonville with a TON of talent on defense.

If Zorn doesn't make it, I believe that will be the sign that Snyder will finally recognize that his way isn't working and he will give full reign and control to Shanahan (because Cowher and Holmgren aren't coming here) and back away.

So you talked to Coward and Holmgren and they told you this or its is something that you made up based on nothing.

[SmootSmack]

I think the original post made some valid points and there are definite mistakes with the Snyder era, but it's hard to truly take it seriously when the summary is Snyder bought the team to be General Manager.

[Hog1]

stop with your truth and logic already!!!

[NM Redskin]

I'm glad these kinds of threads are back, takes some of the heat of Zorn and Campbell, lol.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by NM Redskin

I'm glad these kinds of threads are back, takes some of the heat of Zorn and Campbell, lol.

Agree, it's been a great discussion. Refreshingly civilized. A little speculative but interesting.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by NM Redskin

I'm glad these kinds of threads are back, takes some of the heat of Zorn and Campbell, lol.

Hey, we try! We are trying to bring some great content that generates great discussion from all view points. Over 100 replies in one day. Excellent job Warpath!

[The Goat]

jeez that color is lame... didn't look that way in the little box. sorry everybody.

[Bishop Hammer]

Thank you Spence; I have been saying that for years. For the life of me I can not see why so many people stick by Snyder? Sure he gets the blame for some things that are not his fault but the vast majority of the Skins past screw ups have been mainly him.

After he fired Marty to hire "Spurious" I knew either he had no idea how to run an NFL franchise or just didn't give a hoot.

Sadly he has not changed I our beloved Redskins might very well continue to be the Chicago Cubs of football.

[SmootSmack]

If we're going to talk about possible 2010 candidates (which is probably a discussion for another thread on another day), I put Brian Billick near the top of the list

[celts32]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

If we're going to talk about possible 2010 candidates (which is probably a discussion for another thread on another day), I put Brian Billick near the top of the list

Is that just an opinion or do you have reasons to believe he would be a candidate? Not a big fan of Billick.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by celts32

Is that just an opinion or do you have reasons to believe he would be a candidate? Not a big fan of Billick.

A little both, more the former. Much more the former actually.