Redskins Reportedly Bringing OLs Elton Brown and Ray Willis in for Visit

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

I don't think they are bringing in TO, but "Vinny said so" doesn't rank very high on my list of convincing arguments.

Well let's hope the Sarge means no this time.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

If you can produce a link to this, I think you'd be off the hook for assuming Rabach was performing decently last year.

This is where I got my info from. If its not true, then its Elfin's fault:

Washington Times - Interior trio anchors Redskins' offensive line

Rabach, Bugel's lieutenant, has to know everyone's assignments while dueling with massive defenders. Rabach's performance this season earned him a spot on both the Sporting News and USA Today midseason All-Pro teams. Kendall made Sports Illustrated's.

"I see the game for the most part the way Casey sees it, trying to determine what side the pressure's coming from ... the intentions of the defense whether it be via a certain player's posture or an alignment, the understanding of our scheme and how it fits in against the defensive scheme," Kendall said.

One other thing I was thinking is that we know the Post hates the skins. JLC looks for anything he can to criticize them, yet, in Post articles, guard and Tackle are the only positions on our line that they report as weaknesses. One would think, if they, or their sources gave any indication that the team was dissatisfied with Rabach, then they would say so. Instead, we've heard no such argument.

Ive never done a play by play analysis of every player for every game. So by questioning you, i'm not intending any disrespect - but i havent seen anything during watching games to make me think that Rabach did a bad job last year. To the contrary, ive been impressed. By all reports, so has the team.

[Nflnick11]

A) Elton Brown isn't that good, he was a backup on the cardinals awful oline
B) Ray willis should be signed to a contract, Especially if all the good tackles will not be there at 13 like people are saying (especially on this site)
C) DONT WANT T O and right now not even the raiders want him...ouch!
Keep me posted on Willis

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Nflnick11

A) Elton Brown isn't that good, he was a backup on the cardinals awful oline
B) Ray willis should be signed to a contract, Especially if all the good tackles will not be there at 13 like people are saying (especially on this site)
C) DONT WANT T O and right now not even the raiders want him...ouch!
Keep me posted on Willis

I am not picking(cuz i didn't watch many cardinals games till the playoffs), but asking, wasn't our complaint that Campbell did not have time. Didn't Warner lob many a bombs, even against Pitt's D. Maybe they didn't run block but I think pass blocking had to be ok?

[SmootSmack]

I think the market for a tackle in the 3rd round is rather bare this year (some good centers potentially though, Antoine Caldwell comes to mind), but it's kinda funny how some people here don't trust the Front Office to find a 3rd round talent to start on the line because of Chad Rinehart yet are gung-ho about Dockery's return (apparently forgetting what round he was drafted).

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Nflnick11

A) Elton Brown isn't that good, he was a backup on the cardinals awful oline
B) Ray willis should be signed to a contract, Especially if all the good tackles will not be there at 13 like people are saying (especially on this site)
C) DONT WANT T O and right now not even the raiders want him...ouch!
Keep me posted on Willis

You mean that awful offensive line that allowed only 28 sacks (protecting one of the most immobile QBs in the league) and played well against three top 15 sacking defenses (Atlanta, Carolina, and Philly) on its way to the Superbowl?

I know the Cards didn't have much of a running game (would you need to with Boldin and Fitz) but otherwise the offensive line did a good of job throughout the seasons and especially in the playoffs.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

This is where I got my info from. If its not true, then its Elfin's fault:

Washington Times - Interior trio anchors Redskins' offensive line

Good read, thanks. Elfin's article is dated 11/14. That, I believe, was published just before the second Dallas game. Keep in mind, if we win that game (which we nearly did), we probably sneak into the playoffs by virtue of only needing to win one more game in the final month to have done so.

So we were 6-3 at the time this was penned. No one anywhere was writing anything bad about the Skins offensive line in general, much less about the offensive line yet. Keep that in mind.

For point of reference, here are my offensive game reviews for the prior 4 games, and for the Dallas game that happened shortly after Elfin's article:

Rams vs. Redskins
http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...w-offense.html

Browns vs. Redskins
http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...gt-review.html

Redskins vs. Lions (which I attended)
http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...e-version.html

Steelers vs. Redskins
http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...gt-review.html

and a vowel

Cowboys vs. Redskins
http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...-recivers.html

Note: I've yet to go back and read these, but I just want to see how often I made reference to Rabach struggling over this stretch of home games.

[Nflnick11]

I also remeber us getting sacks on them last year at least 2 or 3, and we were one of the worst sacking teams in the league, plus Arizona is a quicker passing team, with Recieving weapons MUCH better than ours IMO

[Son Of Man]

Originally Posted by smootsmack

i think the market for a tackle in the 3rd round is rather bare this year (some good centers potentially though, antoine caldwell comes to mind), but it's kinda funny how some people here don't trust the front office to find a 3rd round talent to start on the line because of chad rinehart yet are gung-ho about dockery's return (apparently forgetting what round he was drafted).

true....lol

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Nflnick11

I also remeber us getting sacks on them last year at least 2 or 3, and we were one of the worst sacking teams in the league, plus Arizona is a quicker passing team, with Recieving weapons MUCH better than ours IMO

Yes but you should judge an offensive line on its ability to both run and pass block. As I said, that Arizona was not a great running team, but they they were very good in pass protection, giving up 28 sacks (tied for 11th in the league) and protecting Warner against tough defenses like Atlanta, Philly, and Carolina in the playoffs.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by That Guy

i think willis may be getting pumped up a bit too much. i'm not sure he's really a HUGE upgrade over heyer, he's just the best of a (weak) OT market that may have some upside... still, he wouldn't be expensive, but if I wanted to draft an OT and we signed him, I wouldn't hesitate to draft an OT anyways.

Willis to me is a very attractive option, more so then a lot of people seem to be giving him credit for. Anyway heres a few things that Willis brings to the table

The Good

1. Size - Bugel has said in the past that as long as you give him players with size he'll be able to do the rest. Dockery is a testement to this as lots of people seem to forget how much Dock struggled early in his career. Then again even Samuals looked like a liability in Spurriers system. Anyway Willis definately has the size at 6'6 315 pounds.

2. Run Blocking - A must for any RT. In scouts evaluation of him, before he got to start 10 games, he was touted as a powerful run blocker that just needed to work on his footwork. Still he creates lanes and in the end thats what matters. I would say that he's probably a step below Jansen in terms of run blocking. Or at least 1st half of the season Jansen which brings me to my next point.

3. Age - At 26 Elton Brown is pretty much at his peak physically. On top of that he is more likely to maintain a high level of play throughout the season, where as a lot of our older lineman broke down last year during the strech.

4. Cost - Probably one of the main draws towards Willis. I think the estimates right now are about 3 millions a year which will probably end up being $1.5 million against the cap next year.

5. Production - The Seahawks two main runners were able to average over 4.3 YPC. Granted that Julius Jones and Maurice Morris are average at best I'd say those numbers end up working in favor of Willis.

6. Knowledge - All he'll have to learn is our run blocking schemes. Still he'll be pretty familiar with the terminology and will already have a grasp on the protection schemes Zorn wants to run.

7. Versatility - Should Rhinehart end up not being a starting quality player Willis will be more then ready to fill in at RG should Thomas go down. Ironically he might be better then Thomas at this point.

8. More Freedom Come Draft Day - Not that I'm opposed to taking a guy like Andre Smith should he fall, and given Vinny's run on pass catchers last year no one should discount the Vinny overkill factor. However the fact of the matter is we won't have to reach.

The Bad

1. Limited Experience - Granted he has 10 games of starting experience we can't say we know to much about him.

2. Pass Blocking - Definately an upgrade over Jansen but he doesn't have the feet, at least not yet, to be left alone on an island vs speed rushers so on that note he's not an option at LT should we lose Samuals (knock on wood). Some will point to the Dallas game as evidence that Willis struggles in pass protection but out of the 7 sacks Willis seemed to hold his own and was not one of the reasons the Cowboys were able to do that annoying turkey dance so often. To his credit he also allowed only 1.5 sacks last year so it's not like he's a liability. Just don't expect him to play LT short of an emergency.

[vallin21]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

No way Rabach is worse than Jansen, Heyer, Thomas or any of our backups. At worst, he was our third best lineman behind Kendall and Samuels. I'm not saying I think Rabach is a stud - Center needs to be upgraded... its just the rest of our line is so bad. I think Rabach would play better with Dockery and someone other than Thomas beside him... whereas i dont think Randy would benefit much from having a better RT and Center beside him.



Is that because you doubt Smiths ability or you have some supreme confidence in Willis?

For the second time, let me clarify a few points again to youthat you don't understand. You said, "Rabach would play better with Dockery and someone other than Thomas" So your basacially saying Randy Thomas cannot play anymore, right? (Let me know if I'm mistaking your words) You then go on to say Thomas wouldn't benefit from having a new RT and C. That's where I first disagree. It makes no sense to say Thomas wouldn't benefit to have 2 above average lineman playing next to him. Do you think Reinhardt do any better? Next point, I just don't get why you wouldn't even look into Willis, let alone sign him. That part annoys me. Nobady's saying he's the best RT on earth, but I do think he is better than Heyer at that position. I'm not going to argue about the rest of your post, but I will say this: You can your opinion and I can have mine. We can agree to disagree.

[vallin21]

I just read your sources about Rabach being in All pro at mid season BHA. I was wrong.

[wilsowilso]

Rabach is a mediocre if not worse NFL player. He pretty much stinks.

[RedskinPete]

I like Willis and Brown! Younger and are on the up side at a fare price. For this season Willis would be better then anyone in this draft. The long run is another story. I don't know if a top OT will fall to 13th pick. Now this draft has some great LB's and is so so on DE. At 13th pick some star LB's could be had. Picking up Willis and Brown would make for a stronger line. Here is the BIG thing...with only one pick in the first two rounds that hurts our chances of fill three spots. Yes you can trade down and get more picks but picking right on one pick would be great but filling two spots with rockies is just not going to happen. So if the team is going to be a Championship type team we must fill some spots with vets that can do the job a year or two or find younger guys that may make that big jump to a starter. Is Willis or Brown that type of guys? Maybe...That is why Vinny get's the big bucks and he and Danny need to find these kind of players to make this team great again!!!