6 WEEKS AGO: Trade Ramsey, Bench/trade Gardner

[Hogskin]

Originally Posted by jrocx69

ive seen some iditotic statements on here....

I agree - but they are the ones I just now read. How in the world does being critical of one of a Redskin who can not "grow" out of his basic problems with fundamentals make you a non-fan?????????????????????????????? I have been a very strong fan for almost 60 years, and resent that. I was still a fan when I said Heath Shuler had to go. I was a fan when I said (in his SECOND YEAR) that Norv Turner had to go for us to be a winner. I was a fan when I said (in HIS second year) that Westbrook should go. I was a fan when I could not believe they let Stan Humphries go (I remember being AMAZED at an early Humphries play when he rolled out almost to the right sideline, and threw an "impossible", very strong pass to the LEFT sideline for a big play.) I was a fan when I HATED that we had Deion, and he was being beaten over the middle again and again. Do I have to close my eyes to bad play to be a fan??????????????

Just because I have a very good awareness of talent AND guys that are not able to overcome their faults, that does not make me anti-Redskins.

Oh, by the way, I still feel strongly they WILL be in the playoffs this year. But I don't think Ramsey or Gardner will be starting in the playoff gameS. Just my opinion.

Oh, and by the way, I fully agree with Smack. If Ramsey is in the game, I will be rooting and screaming with all the rest of you, hoping like hell he proves me wrong!

[CrazyCanuck]

While the anger in this post is justified, I don't think singling out Ramsey is fair.

The entire team (except maybe the D) crapped out on this one.

I still (happily) see Ramsey as the future QB of this team.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

Look at New England for example. Drew Bledsoe, the first overall pick in the 1993 Draft. He has been to been to a couple superbowls and been elected to a couple of probowls. His arm strength is unquestionable.
Drew is struggling and gets hurt. In comes Tom Brady, a sixth round draft pick (last round) that was not even a starter in college until his senior year. Tom Brady does not have a strong arm like Bledsoe. But he is a smart football player and QB. Brady excels at reading defense's and making good/quick decsions (frequently compared to Montana).
Even after Brady helped New England win their 1st superbowl there was still half the patriots fans that wanted Bledsoe to start again because he is a better athlete and has a stronger arm. I think some of you might falling into this mind set. Bledsoe is now with Buffalo and still holds on to the ball to long. Brady won yet another super bowl.

If Tim Hasslebeck had Tom Brady's Record, there wouldnt be this conversation. But he is 1-5 as a starter. Brady lost I belive 1 start the year he took over for Bledsoe, he went 9-7 the next year and then won another Superbowl. Tim played well, dont get me wrong, but we didnt win.

[Hogskin]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

If Tim Hasslebeck had Tom Brady's Record, there wouldnt be this conversation. But he is 1-5 as a starter. Brady lost I belive 1 start the year he took over for Bledsoe, he went 9-7 the next year and then won another Superbowl. Tim played well, dont get me wrong, but we didnt win.

On the surface that sounds like a good argument, but there is a lot more to winning than the QB. (Just ask Sonny Jurgenson, one of the best pure passers ever). That NE team was a WHOLE lot better, especially on defense, and had a WHOLE lot better coaching staff, top to bottom. All you can take from TH's games from last year are a look at his skills. And you can get very little from that, because he did not go through training camp and had VERY little practice with the team prior to his first start. All I would say about TH is he should get another look at some point, especially after having what seemed like a successful training camp. But we know a lot more than that about PR. It just seems that some of us have different opinions of what we have seen the past 25 months.

[Gmanc711]

Originally Posted by Hogskin

But we know a lot more than that about PR. It just seems that some of us have different opinions of what we have seen the past 25 months.

I agree. It looks like next Monday we can all sit back and hopefully see what he can do. Cause the early reports are that they are expect Ramsey to start next week.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

LOL this board is utterly ridiculous today

Let me see if I have this straight, Ramsey is garbage. Even though he's a 3rd year QB who's a bright guy with a strong arm, he clearly can't win in this league (why Gibbs doesn't know this is beyond me).

Let's forget the fact he was rushed in to starting as a rookie and played in a flawed system with not much of a running game or protection.

I can't believe he hasn't picked up Gibbs' system already, a system that Joe Theismann admits took him an entire season before he felt comfortable. Let's also overlook the fact that Mark Brunell, an 11 year vet, is also struggling in picking up the system. Ramsey is clearly not going to ever amount to anything. He's had his chance, we should move on, right? I mean c'mon, he's had 16 starts, that's enough, time to hand it over to third string Tim Hasselbeck who at this time last year was sitting at home like us. We should just bench Brunell now, trade Ramsey and start TH. I really don't know what Gibbs is thinking.

I am late getting to this thread, thank's Matty for setting the boy's straight! I can't believe such utter nonesense, I guess the cowboy's should have dumped Aikman after his 3rd year, Troy was starting to be looked at as a bust, in fact people wanted Steve Burlien to start, what did TH do in the pre season that was so great, I guess everyone has forgotten about his zero QB rating in one of his start's last year, everyone is talking about fumbling as if it's all Ramsey, what about Brunnell? I guess he get's a free pass, even though he's cost us point's because he can't get out from behind the center, Ramsey drove us down the field almost every time he had the ball, a far cry from Brunnell, who had the first team to work with in practice the last 2 week's, fact is if Gardner can make a simple 5 yd. catch, Ramsey is a hero, and everyone is yelling for him to start, I said it when we traded for him, Ramsey is, and will be a far better QB than Brunnell, If Brunnell was brought here because of his expierience, then I expect him to play like a veteran, but he's not, so what is it, Brunnell, or learning Gibb's system, either way Ramsey win's out. I have no doubt that it's only a matter of time before Ramsey start's to flurish under Gibb's, but he has to play, and I doubt Brunnell can start this week, if he couldn't finish the game last week, if he can't run he's finished as a QB, unlike Ramsey who has the ability to take a defense apart from the pocket.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Gmanc711

If Tim Hasslebeck had Tom Brady's Record, there wouldnt be this conversation. But he is 1-5 as a starter. Brady lost I belive 1 start the year he took over for Bledsoe, he went 9-7 the next year and then won another Superbowl. Tim played well, dont get me wrong, but we didnt win.

I was only referring to the similarities in the style of QB's, not records. Brady was 0-0 as a starter when he took over for Bledsoe, so what does win - loss records have to do with anything? It is not always about win-loss when you rate a QB, but how well the QB played. Your QB can play perfect and your defense can lose the game. Which is exactly the opposite of what happened to the Redskins on Sunday.
In my comparison was just referring to the similarities of playing styles of the QB's.
Bledsoe/Ramsey are 1 st round picks with strong arms; big guys that are not very mobile. They also both like to hold on to the ball too long and have been accused of being slow at deciding where to throw it. They also are not good at just throwing the ball away when all their receivers are covered. they sometimes force a throw that leads to an interception. They both get sacked alot (from holding the ball to long-coverage sacks). But they are both very good at throwing the long passes. They are head cases. Their decision making skills are not very good right now. What is holding tham back is not their physical skiis, it is their mental skills.

Brady/Hasselbeck were unwanted players coming out of college. They do not have the strongest arms. They are mobile. They are quick to get rid of the ball. They have quick release. They are better at the short to intermediate passes. Not good with the long ball. The comparisons stop there though, Brady has deveploped into one of the best QB's in the game. Hasselbeck is lucky to still be in the NFL. But Gibbs likes him and he will get a shot sometime.
It is telling that after watching extensive film of the Redskins of the last two years, Gibbs decided to go out and get Brunnell. He commited alot of money to him as well. I think that tells you Ramsey has been slow to develop and is not ready.