the new health care?

[dmek25]

so we let the insurance/ medical field control the costs of managed health care? that seems to working just fine( not) i have an idea. lets try something new! oh my god, i said it. the dreaded change word, that petrifies many

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by dmek25

so we let the insurance/ medical field control the costs of managed health care? that seems to working just fine( not) i have an idea. lets try something new! oh my god, i said it. the dreaded change word, that petrifies many

As Ecclesiastes says: "there is nothing new under the sun"

Most ways of involving the government in health care have been tried in other countries. Every one, including ours, leaves something to be desired. I hope HSA's are the wave that the country goes forward with, as they seem to offer the best incentive to keep costs down and service quality up.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by dmek25

so we let the insurance/ medical field control the costs of managed health care? that seems to working just fine( not) i have an idea. lets try something new! oh my god, i said it. the dreaded change word, that petrifies many

The goverment allready has a failin health system but you wnat them to start another system that will have the same problems. Heck even the post office is running in the red of around 3 billion a year.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by dmek25

so we let the insurance/ medical field control the costs of managed health care? that seems to working just fine( not) i have an idea. lets try something new! oh my god, i said it. the dreaded change word, that petrifies many

Change is fine but what do you want to change? What is the new plan?

I admit, I do not see a real solution. Does that mean I am not open to one? No. My family is getting by on a shoe string so if your change is going to cost me substantially more in the short term or lower the quality of my kids care, your plan better be damn good. Further, I am not going to say something is good just because it is different.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I hope Obama has something that will work. I promise to give any plan he puts forth fair scrutiny. What I have seen from him on this front so far is not "new". It may be change but that does not necessarily make it better.

Give me a plan that lowers costs while still providing quality care to the vast number of already insured americans. If you have a plan for that, I will gladly pay what I currently pay now and an extra 10% on top to help insure the currently uninsurable.

[firstdown]

The Post office is loosing money.
Postal Service could run out of money this year, postmaster general says - Business – cleveland.com
Social Security is going bankrupt
2007 Social Security Trustees Report Shows the Urgency of Reform
Medicare in in bad financial trouble
Trustees Report Summary
Oh, by the way the US is running in the negative already.
U.S. National Debt Clock
So why the heck would we even want the goverment to take on even a bigger task? For the sake of "Change"?

We also saw how good the govermant worked bailing out the banks, GMC, Chrysler, AIG they really have their act together.

[dmek25]

OK, then what do we do? just let things go on the way they are? pretty soon no one will make a decent wage, because of employers rising health care costs. and that's very hypocritical of you to all of a sudden worry about the national debt. where were you the last 8 years? right now, every U.S. business is feeling the bad economy. i promise, things will get better

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by dmek25

OK, then what do we do? just let things go on the way they are? pretty soon no one will make a decent wage, because of employers rising health care costs. and that's very hypocritical of you to all of a sudden worry about the national debt. where were you the last 8 years? right now, every U.S. business is feeling the bad economy. i promise, things will get better

The Democrats have been in control of Congress since 2006. No one liked it when the Republicans spent a lot of money. Why would we like it when the Dems spend double that amount?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by dmek25

OK, then what do we do? just let things go on the way they are? pretty soon no one will make a decent wage, because of employers rising health care costs. and that's very hypocritical of you to all of a sudden worry about the national debt. where were you the last 8 years? right now, every U.S. business is feeling the bad economy. i promise, things will get better

What alot of people don't seem to understand is how disgusted fiscal conservatives were with Bush about the debt. Doesn't mean they suddenly wanted Democrats in office, but they were not cheering Bush on as the country went on an ever larger spending spree.

Personally, i grew up a Republican, held a lot of ideals as a Republican, but after they had their chance and ended up going on spending sprees for the rich, at the country's expense, I could not vote for Republicans. Didn't want to vote Democratic either, cuz we know they will spend out of control, so that leaves me, and people like me, who want the government's roll to be minimal, and within a fixed budget, left without any useful voice. It is sad to see our country go down this road, and I speak of the out of control spending road, not Obama personally or even anti Democrat road. Just a road, where every single thing needs government assistance, or else somehow, we won't survive.
I hope I am wrong, I hope that Obama, the Democrats, and the Republicans all realize that unrestrained spending, even on good and noble pursuits, can not be had at the expense of everyone's childrens' futures.

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

What alot of people don't seem to understand is how disgusted fiscal conservatives were with Bush about the debt. Doesn't mean they suddenly wanted Democrats in office, but they were not cheering Bush on as the country went on an ever larger spending spree.

Personally, i grew up a Republican, held a lot of ideals as a Republican, but after they had their chance and ended up going on spending sprees for the rich, at the country's expense, I could not vote for Republicans. Didn't want to vote Democratic either, cuz we know they will spend out of control, so that leaves me, and people like me, who want the government's roll to be minimal, and within a fixed budget, left without any useful voice. It is sad to see our country go down this road, and I speak of the out of control spending road, not Obama personally or even anti Democrat road. Just a road, where every single thing needs government assistance, or else somehow, we won't survive.
I hope I am wrong, I hope that Obama, the Democrats, and the Republicans all realize that unrestrained spending, even on good and noble pursuits, can not be had at the expense of everyone's childrens' futures.

I am a disenfranchised fiscal conservative as well my friend. So i lean Republican, but god do they make some very crucial mistakes. We need a GNP(Grand New Party), with smart, charasmatic leaders that arent tied to the right so fastly. I'm sure you can imagine how difficult it is to be a pro-choice, fiscal conservative.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

I am a disenfranchised fiscal conservative as well my friend. So i lean Republican, but god do they make some very crucial mistakes. We need a GNP(Grand New Party), with smart, charasmatic leaders that arent tied to the right so fastly. I'm sure you can imagine how difficult it is to be a pro-choice, fiscal conservative.

I think you mean tied to the social conservatives so fastly. The christian right's co-opting of the Republican party started in the 80's with Mr. Falwell and the Moral Majority. It concerned me then and has ultimately cost the Republican party its soul as the social conservatives became more interested in government interventionism as time wore on.

Whereas originally this group was very defensive saying, essentially, "We have a right to believe as we do and to express that belief" (which I agree with), they changed to a very aggressive stance saying "We have the right to believe as we do and, where we are the majority, to make laws reflecting and enforcing our religious beliefs." In doing so, the went from a stance that required govt. to simply stay out of the way to one that called for interventionist policies. Once you buy into the "Govt. can legislate belief", it is only a short trip down the road to Govt activism.

The social conservatives and the democratic socialists have the same formula, they just believe in different ingredients.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I think you mean tied to the social conservatives so fastly. The christian right's co-opting of the Republican party started in the 80's with Mr. Falwell and the Moral Majority. It concerned me then and has ultimately cost the Republican party its soul as the social conservatives became more interested in government interventionism as time wore on.

Whereas originally this group was very defensive saying, essentially, "We have a right to believe as we do and to express that belief" (which I agree with), they changed to a very aggressive stance saying "We have the right to believe as we do and, where we are the majority, to make laws reflecting and enforcing our religious beliefs." In doing so, the went from a stance that required govt. to simply stay out of the way to one that called for interventionist policies. Once you buy into the "Govt. can legislate belief", it is only a short trip down the road to Govt activism.

The social conservatives and the democratic socialists have the same formula, they just believe in different ingredients.

Well then what is a hate crime? If I call someone a name as I'm betting on them its a different set of rules and a longer sentence. Besides abortion what othe religious type laws have the Rep. pushed for.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

I am a disenfranchised fiscal conservative as well my friend. So i lean Republican, but god do they make some very crucial mistakes. We need a GNP(Grand New Party), with smart, charasmatic leaders that arent tied to the right so fastly. I'm sure you can imagine how difficult it is to be a pro-choice, fiscal conservative.

Add myself, and I believe FRPLG and GMScud to that group

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Add myself, and I believe FRPLG and GMScud to that group

Yessir. I enjoy this board way too much to get into political back and forth (although I occasionally lurk on the political threads and enjoy some of the discussion). However I'm not shy about revealing my political alignment.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

I am a disenfranchised fiscal conservative as well my friend. So i lean Republican, but god do they make some very crucial mistakes. We need a GNP(Grand New Party), with smart, charasmatic leaders that arent tied to the right so fastly. I'm sure you can imagine how difficult it is to be a pro-choice, fiscal conservative.

Bingo...I am not exactly pro-choice but I honestly give mostly a hoot about social issues. They seem to work themselves out on their own and I don't really want anyone legislating social mores anyways. Plus the social direction of this country means nothing if we spend it into oblivion and end up with no country someday.

"Hallelujah! Even though our nation has fallen to pieces and civil wars have ensued...we still don't let woman have abortions and the damn gays can't get married. We've won!!!!!"

Yeah you've won you dopes. You've won a Darwin award. Screw social conservatives in my opinion.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Bingo...I am not exactly pro-choice but I honestly give mostly a hoot about social issues. They seem to work themselves out on their own and I don't really want anyone legislating social mores anyways. Plus the social direction of this country means nothing if we spend it into oblivion and end up with no country someday.

"Hallelujah! Even though our nation has fallen to pieces and civil wars have ensued...we still don't let woman have abortions and the damn gays can't get married. We've won!!!!!"

Yeah you've won you dopes. You've won a Darwin award. Screw social conservatives in my opinion.

LOL. Great post.