AH trade II La Canfora insists AH is indeed on the trading block.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

There's so much talk from each side of the fence I don't know how anyone can draw a hard line in the sand and tell who's more right or wrong in all of this. I think both sides have their points.

This is what we know, AH has skipped out on voluntary workouts. Big deal? Not really in the big picture. AH was offered up in a trade to Philly. Big deal? Not really, he's one of the biggest bargaining chips we have and more than anything I think the FO wanted to try to avoid paying that $21M bonus.

What all of this comes down to is AH wasn't hand picked by this staff. And AH didn't sign on to play with this current staff either. Changes happen all the time in this league, one team's treasure is another team's trash, and vice versa. Hopefully in the end things work out best for both sides.

I'd like to see AH stay, and I think all of this will blow over with time. But if a team comes knocking with a trade offer of multiple picks, I wouldn't complain about that either.

I think you summarized everything well, except for the fact that haynesworth has skipped minicamp, not just voluntary workouts. its a big deal (atleast to me, but maybe i'm off on this). haynesworth needs to recognize his place. he just got a 20 million dollar check from Snyder. Not showing up for minicamp is incredibly disrespectful and shows a complete lack of respect for the Redskins front office. he can want to be traded and even try to work something out with the team behind the scenes to expedite things. But theres no garauntee that something can be worked out. in the mean time, Haynesworth needs to swallow his pride and do whatever the redskins ask him to do.

[CRAZY TRADE SCENARIOS=]In my mind, Haynesworth is worth about 700 points on the draft value chart.

From the Redskins perspective, we'd want their 1st round pick, 16th overall, which is worth 1000 points. Fortunately for us, we're looking to unload players and the Titans could use quite a few of them (their biggest needs are DT, DE, OLB, WR, CB and FS. I think we could trade some combination of Haynesworth, Carter, McIntosh, Rogers, and Kelly and get their 1stround pick.

I'm hoping we can send McIntosh and Carter to the Saints for Brown/Bushrod and a pick, so i'm thinking Haynesworth, Rogers, and Kelly for the Titans 1st rounder would be a fair deal.[/CRAZY TRADE SCENARIOS]

[Pocket$ $traight]

[QUOTE=BigHairedAristocrat;690909]what on earth makes you think Shanahan disregarded Haslett's plans for Haynesworth? In all likelyhood, Shanahan was reinforcing Haslett's plans. And even if your assertation were true, last time i checked, Shanahan is the head coach of this team and Haslett works for Shanahan. Shanahan's also more accomplished. If there were ever a disagreement between the two, i'd side with Shanahan without even needing to knkow Hasletts side of the story.


I wasn't making an assertion. I was responding to your comment that Shanahan publicly named Al NT. I believe this was a shot at Al more than a directive.

You would side with Shanahan over Haslett on a matter of defensive strategy? That makes zero sense to me. Shanahan has a terrible track record on defensive line talent evaluation, in fact it contributed to him losing his job in Denver.

If Shanahan wants to succeed here, he needs to let the DC call the shots when it comes to defense, especially when it is a DC as accomplished as Haslett.

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

I think you summarized everything well, except for the fact that haynesworth has skipped minicamp, not just voluntary workouts. its a big deal (atleast to me, but maybe i'm off on this). haynesworth needs to recognize his place. he just got a 20 million dollar check from Snyder. Not showing up for minicamp is incredibly disrespectful and shows a complete lack of respect for the Redskins front office. he can want to be traded and even try to work something out with the team behind the scenes to expedite things. But theres no garauntee that something can be worked out. in the mean time, Haynesworth needs to swallow his pride and do whatever the redskins ask him to do.

[CRAZY TRADE SCENARIOS=]In my mind, Haynesworth is worth about 700 points on the draft value chart.

From the Redskins perspective, we'd want their 1st round pick, 16th overall, which is worth 1000 points. Fortunately for us, we're looking to unload players and the Titans could use quite a few of them (their biggest needs are DT, DE, OLB, WR, CB and FS. I think we could trade some combination of Haynesworth, Carter, McIntosh, Rogers, and Kelly and get their 1stround pick.

I'm hoping we can send McIntosh and Carter to the Saints for Brown/Bushrod and a pick, so i'm thinking Haynesworth, Rogers, and Kelly for the Titans 1st rounder would be a fair deal.[/CRAZY TRADE SCENARIOS]

Haynesworth, Rogers and Kelly for a first round pick...

Are you drunk?

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

Haynesworth, Rogers and Kelly for a first round pick...

Are you drunk?

How about Haynesworth alone for both of the Titans 3rd round picks?

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

How about Haynesworth alone for both of the Titans 3rd round picks?

You are asking the wrong guy. I want the coaches to see how they can use Al this year and if it doesn't work out, trade him in the offseason.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

You are asking the wrong guy. I want the coaches to see how they can use Al this year and if it doesn't work out, trade him in the offseason.

This. Short of getting a guaranteed starter(ie mid to high first round), I just can't see a trade that makes sense for the Redskins. And I don't want to firesale him just to trade him.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;690919]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

what on earth makes you think Shanahan disregarded Haslett's plans for Haynesworth? In all likelyhood, Shanahan was reinforcing Haslett's plans. And even if your assertation were true, last time i checked, Shanahan is the head coach of this team and Haslett works for Shanahan. Shanahan's also more accomplished. If there were ever a disagreement between the two, i'd side with Shanahan without even needing to knkow Hasletts side of the story.


I wasn't making an assertion. I was responding to your comment that Shanahan publicly named Al NT. I believe this was a shot at Al more than a directive.

You would side with Shanahan over Haslett on a matter of defensive strategy? That makes zero sense to me. Shanahan has a terrible track record on defensive line talent evaluation, in fact it contributed to him losing his job in Denver.

If Shanahan wants to succeed here, he needs to let the DC call the shots when it comes to defense, especially when it is a DC as accomplished as Haslett.

in my opinion, your faith in haslett is laughable. he is, by far, the worst defensive coordinator this team has had in a decade. the only faith i have in haslett is that shanahan had a whole year off to evaluate pretty much everything and he hand-picked him to be DC. i have no doubt that he and Haslett are on the same page when it comes to how the defense will be run and how to best utilize defensive players. I do agree that calling Haynesworth the teams starting NT was a comment primarily directed at Haynesworth - the big guy needs to swallow his pride and learn his place. We've brought in a couple dozen defensive linemen to compete for a roster spot, and instead of showing up and competing and practicing with his team, he's acting like he's above the team and staying away because he doesnt like whats going on. Shanahan's the head coach. Haynesworth needs to take a lesson from Clinton Portis and recognize that. We brought in two accomplished veteran RBs to compete with him. Instead of pouting and creating a fuss, he's shed his diva persona and is working out hard with the team, trying to prove to the new regime that he's worth keeping around. Haynesworth needs to get his butt inline.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

How about Haynesworth alone for both of the Titans 3rd round picks?

Absolutely not.

[SmootSmack]

Should be noted that his minicamp that Haynesworth didn't attend was actually an extra mini-camp. Since Shanahan is a new coach (new to the Skins at least), he has the opportunity to hold two extra mini-camps and he's taking advantage of it. This first minicamp was pretty basic stuff...in other words, he didn't miss much this past weekend

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Absolutely not.

But you would trade Haynesworth, Rogers and Kelly for a first round pick?

[Pocket$ $traight]

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;690931]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

in my opinion, your faith in haslett is laughable. he is, by far, the worst defensive coordinator this team has had in a decade. the only faith i have in haslett is that shanahan had a whole year off to evaluate pretty much everything and he hand-picked him to be DC. i have no doubt that he and Haslett are on the same page when it comes to how the defense will be run and how to best utilize defensive players. I do agree that calling Haynesworth the teams starting NT was a comment primarily directed at Haynesworth - the big guy needs to swallow his pride and learn his place. We've brought in a couple dozen defensive linemen to compete for a roster spot, and instead of showing up and competing and practicing with his team, he's acting like he's above the team and staying away because he doesnt like whats going on. Shanahan's the head coach. Haynesworth needs to take a lesson from Clinton Portis and recognize that. We brought in two accomplished veteran RBs to compete with him. Instead of pouting and creating a fuss, he's shed his diva persona and is working out hard with the team, trying to prove to the new regime that he's worth keeping around. Haynesworth needs to get his butt inline.

What makes Haslett such a terrible DC? He had some pretty good Pittsburgh teams. He led the Saints to their first playoff win and was the NFL coach of the year.

I think it could be argued whether Haslett is by far worse than Blache. I guess we will see.

[MTK]

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;690931]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

in my opinion, your faith in haslett is laughable. he is, by far, the worst defensive coordinator this team has had in a decade. the only faith i have in haslett is that shanahan had a whole year off to evaluate pretty much everything and he hand-picked him to be DC. i have no doubt that he and Haslett are on the same page when it comes to how the defense will be run and how to best utilize defensive players. I do agree that calling Haynesworth the teams starting NT was a comment primarily directed at Haynesworth - the big guy needs to swallow his pride and learn his place. We've brought in a couple dozen defensive linemen to compete for a roster spot, and instead of showing up and competing and practicing with his team, he's acting like he's above the team and staying away because he doesnt like whats going on. Shanahan's the head coach. Haynesworth needs to take a lesson from Clinton Portis and recognize that. We brought in two accomplished veteran RBs to compete with him. Instead of pouting and creating a fuss, he's shed his diva persona and is working out hard with the team, trying to prove to the new regime that he's worth keeping around. Haynesworth needs to get his butt inline.

I'd say that's a stretch especially since we haven't even seen him coach a single snap yet.

Besides, George Edwards was pretty much a disaster in 2003. And if we're going back 10 years to '99, Mike "vanilla" Nolan was pretty bad. And of course Blache has his share of critics too.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

But you would trade Haynesworth, Rogers and Kelly for a first round pick?

Yes. I stated that felt Haynesworth was worth 700 points.

The titans natural 3rd round pick is worth only 205 points. the titans second 3rd rounder is a compensatory pick (for losing haynesworth last year) and is not trade-able. even if it was tradeable, it would only be worth about 115points. Those two picks are nowhere near worth Haynesworths value (to me).

Since the Titans 1st round pick is worth 1000 points, and I value Haynesworth at 700 points, we'd need to find a way to make up the remaining 300 points. a pick near the bottom of the 2nd round is worth 300 points. Bringing in Buchanon makes rogers somewhat expendable. I personally think Rogers is worth a 2nd rounder, but evidently no one else does or he would have been traded a long time ago. we'd need to offer something else to sweeten the deal. Enter Malcom Kelly. He's been rumored to be part of half a dozen potential trades SmootSmack has mentioned over the past couple of months so I think including him would make some sense.

[tryfuhl]

value or not I don't think that anyone wants to give up their 1st right now, especially seeing other recent trades

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Yes. I stated that felt Haynesworth was worth 700 points.

The titans natural 3rd round pick is worth only 205 points. the titans second 3rd rounder is a compensatory pick (for losing haynesworth last year) and is not trade-able. even if it was tradeable, it would only be worth about 115points. Those two picks are nowhere near worth Haynesworths value (to me).

Since the Titans 1st round pick is worth 1000 points, and I value Haynesworth at 700 points, we'd need to find a way to make up the remaining 300 points. a pick near the bottom of the 2nd round is worth 300 points. Bringing in Buchanon makes rogers somewhat expendable. I personally think Rogers is worth a 2nd rounder, but evidently no one else does or he would have been traded a long time ago. we'd need to offer something else to sweeten the deal. Enter Malcom Kelly. He's been rumored to be part of half a dozen potential trades SmootSmack has mentioned over the past couple of months so I think including him would make some sense.

Rumored to be part of one trade, and that was a package deal for Brandon Marshall.

Also,

Redskins' Allen Sees Draft As Chance To Improve

Anytime a first round pick is traded, Jimmy Johnson’s famous point value chart is cited to determine if each team got fair value.

Allen and Shanahan don’t subscribe to that philosophy.

“It really is a deterrent to trading,” Allen said. “If you analyze [the chart], it takes so many draft choices to move up just a few slots. That’s prevented a lot of people from making more moves on draft day.”