Report: Redskins are pursuing Vincent Jackson

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Jackson is probably the one acquisition in the NFL that could take us from borderline playoff contender to borderline super bowl contender.

He's not young for his experience level, necessarily, but he's just a 5th year player who is 27 years old. That gives him 2 or 3 more years as an elite, top five, NFL wide receiver, which means he's worth a first round pick plus in compensation.

If the Redskins are going to acquire him, however, they'll need to get really creative, because we can't afford to give up our first and our second rounder to get this guy. Haynesworth probably isn't worth much value to San Diego, but other players on our roster very well might be.

I'd try to send over a 2012 first rounder, and a couple of players, perhaps Chris Horton and Santana Moss, or Carlos Rogers and Devin Thomas. That might get it done, if only because Jackson is in such heavy contract limbo, and could be a UFA next year if the CBA allows for it.

Word of caution is that AJ Smith might be the one NFL GM who is willing to let a valuable player sit out rather than overpay him. In the future, more GMs will play hardass with their players, but Smith, I think, is going to get run out of town for being a little ahead of his time.

I disagree that he's a top 5 WR (although physically I think he's probably a top 2 or 3 WR). He was 30th in the league in catches last year and has never topped the 70 catch mark. I think his best seasons are probably still in front of him though (depending on where he's playing). Brandon Marshall is a year younger and already has 3 100+ catch, 1100+ yard seasons in lesser offenses with lesser QBs than VJ. IMO Jackson's avg yards/catch still doesn't trump those numbers.

Plus there's the whole looming suspension thing.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

I'd get him if the price is a 2nd rounder plus some late round pick (5th/6th/7th).

IMO that should be the price range. Miami gave up two second rounders for Brandon Marshall who is younger and statistically pretty dominant over VJ. No way we should give more than Miami did.

[RedskinsfaninBaltimore]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I'm already daydreaming of McNabb bombing it away to Jackson

Damit, it's happening to me too >.<

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I disagree that he's a top 5 WR (although physically I think he's probably a top 2 or 3 WR). He was 30th in the league in catches last year and has never topped the 70 catch mark. I think his best seasons are probably still in front of him though (depending on where he's playing). Brandon Marshall is a year younger and already has 3 100+ catch, 1100+ yard seasons in lesser offenses with lesser QBs than VJ.

Plus there's the whole looming suspension thing.

While catches can be a pretty good measure of which receivers are getting open, you're probably just seeing the effects of having to share the football with Antonio Gates in an offense that throws a high % of it's passes to the running backs behind the line of scrimmage. Jackson catches an obscene (>60%) amount of his passes for a guy who does most of his work beyond the 15 yard zone, and while I can't doubt that a lot of that is the function of superb accuracy on the part of his QB (something he can't take with him), I certainly can't think of 5 receivers I'd rather have on my team.

More to the point, I can't think of a younger receiver than Jackson who is proven enough to warrant a first round pick in a trade.

Hopefully the suspension drives down the price tag on Jackson. If it doesn't, the Chargers are bad at understanding the business side of the NFL.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

I say Shanny trades Kelly and a 2nd in 2012 for VJ. They seem to have no problem with trading future picks. That way the Chargers get an immediate return for a project WR they can work with, and a decent future pick.

Ummmmmms, so Malcolm Kelly is considered immediate return??? LOL!!!!!! I haven't laughed that hard in a while.

Talking with a sports writer from the augusta chronicle who has friends in the DC area, he told me not to be surprised if we trade next years 2nd and 3rd along with A. Carter for the guy. I don't know if that is valid speculation, or just speculation.......

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

While catches can be a pretty good measure of which receivers are getting open, you're probably just seeing the effects of having to share the football with Antonio Gates in an offense that throws a high % of it's passes to the running backs behind the line of scrimmage. Jackson catches an obscene (>60%) amount of his passes for a guy who does most of his work beyond the 15 yard zone, and while I can't doubt that a lot of that is the function of superb accuracy on the part of his QB (something he can't take with him), I certainly can't think of 5 receivers I'd rather have on my team.

More to the point, I can't think of a younger receiver than Jackson who is proven enough to warrant a first round pick in a trade.

Hopefully the suspension drives down the price tag on Jackson. If it doesn't, the Chargers are bad at understanding the business side of the NFL.

Larry Fitzgerald? Brandon Marshall?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I don't put Jackson in the same category as Marshall. I think Miami gave Denver a 2nd rounder which IMO is a steal for Miami. I'm not giving up a 2nd rounder for Jackson. It's just too risky. 3rd rounder and Kelly then I'd make the deal.

Miami gave up two second rounders for Marshall

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GMScud

IMO that should be the price range. Miami gave up two second rounders for Brandon Marshall who is younger and statistically pretty dominant over VJ. No way we should give more than Miami did.

Can't agree that Marshall is statistically dominant over VJ. Marshall is a 12 yard per reception guy for his career, which is less than, among others, Santana Moss and Malcolm Kelly. He doesn't catch a particularly high % if the 180 targets per year he averages. His (Marshall's) 10 TDs last year represent a significant breakout over his past, or potentially, a fluke year. For Jackson, a 7-10 TD season would just be expected.

I know he's been able to rack up the big totals in Denver, with 100 receptions and 1,000 yards, but those haven't really been great passing games for that work. The Chargers have been great and then some, which is a credit to everyone involved (Rivers, Jackson, Sproles, Gates, Norv)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Larry Fitzgerald? Brandon Marshall?

/checks age on Fitzgerald.

There's one. They're both 27. Good find.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

Anyone else getting the feeling that McNabb's window of time left before he starts to noticeably decline (2-3 years) is the window allen and shanny want to win a SB?

Just seems like we are in a win now or next year mode.

top 10 defense? check
Getting a franchise qb? check
Getting a LT and RT? check
Getting a true no. 1 receiver to reap the benefits of having a franchise qb and competent O line? TBD.

Shanhan won SB's in Denver with and 8th round WR and undrafted WR.
I see your point about McNabb....but I think our looking at WR's right now is more about Shannahan not happy with what we currently have at WR than that we need to win now because McNabb is older. They are exploring the diffrent options and cost to improve our WR corp that he is clearly not happy with yet.

[skinsfaninok]

Rumor is the chargers are in discussions with the redskins and bears about Jackson. At this point which team has more to offer?

[cooleyforthescore]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Larry Fitzgerald? Brandon Marshall?

Marques Colston, DeSean Jackson, Sidney Rice?

[MTK]

Originally Posted by over the mountain

Anyone else getting the feeling that McNabb's window of time left before he starts to noticeably decline (2-3 years) is the window allen and shanny want to win a SB?

Just seems like we are in a win now or next year mode.

top 10 defense? check
Getting a franchise qb? check
Getting a LT and RT? check
Getting a true no. 1 receiver to reap the benefits of having a franchise qb and competent O line? TBD.

I think it's safe to say the plan from the very beginning with McNabb involved a 3 year window to try to win it all. You don't bring in a 33 year old QB with plans on rebuilding, that's for sure.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Can't agree that Marshall is statistically dominant over VJ. Marshall is a 12 yard per reception guy for his career, which is less than, among others, Santana Moss and Malcolm Kelly. He doesn't catch a particularly high % if the 180 targets per year he averages. His (Marshall's) 10 TDs last year represent a significant breakout over his past, or potentially, a fluke year. For Jackson, a 7-10 TD season would just be expected.

I know he's been able to rack up the big totals in Denver, with 100 receptions and 1,000 yards, but those haven't really been great passing games for that work. The Chargers have been great and then some, which is a credit to everyone involved (Rivers, Jackson, Sproles, Gates, Norv)

I hear you, I just feel like Marshall is a really dynamic playmaker. He has a penchant for big time catches, and often finds spectacular ways to find the endzone after the catch. I know "dynamic playmaker" is tough to quantify (and I also know that his YPC doesn't help that argument), but that's just my opinion.

Also, when you're targeted as often as Marshall was in Denver, chances are your YPC is going to be lower. He was used so much in both the short, intermediate, and deep passing game, much more so than VJ in SD. Not that VJ couldn't be that guy, he just wasn't for reasons you pointed out (Gates and good pass catching RBs).

I have no doubt if you swapped VJ's role in SD with Brandon Marshall, the YPC numbers would have been just as good.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

/checks age on Fitzgerald.

There's one. They're both 27. Good find.

Actually they're both 26. Although Fitz will be 27 when the season starts. Marshall just turned 26 recently.