Expose on the Tea Party Architects

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You are so very wrong that I don't even know where to begin. Define failure?

Find me one economist that didn't think the stimulus worked. Not a journo or politico, but an economist. Fine me just one. Unemployment would be in the mid-teens without it, easily. The second jobs bill for small businesses that you're referring to will use untapped TARP funds, so it won't add anything to the deficit.

President Obama has created more jobs in his first two years than George W. Bush did during both of his terms. Did you know that? The stimulus has created somewhere north of 3 million jobs. Is that a failure by your definition?

Nearly all the banks have repayed the bailout money profit to the U.S. taxpayer. Is that a failure?http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/bu...1taxpayer.html

The auto industry is showing signs of growth and being profitable for the first time in years. Is that a failure?

See you and GMScud, for that matter, throw out these blanket statements; "Obama's a failure" or "Everything he's tried has failed". WTF? That's not telling me anything. And what the hell is everything??

He did what he said he was going to in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Is the economy where we want it to be - of course not. But surely you, of all people, don't believe that government can solve all problems.

As far as Palin, well, that's just my opinion of course. I think she'll run.

Here Obama's own people said it failed and they advised him on the stimulas.
Barack Obama's Stimulus Plan: Failing by Its Own Measure - TIME


Here ABC:
President Obama: “Every Economist from the Left and Right� Says Stimulus Has Saved or Created At Least Two Million Jobs - Political Punch

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You are so very wrong that I don't even know where to begin. Define failure?

Find me one economist that didn't think the stimulus worked. Not a journo or politico, but an economist. Fine me just one. Unemployment would be in the mid-teens without it, easily. The second jobs bill for small businesses that you're referring to will use untapped TARP funds, so it won't add anything to the deficit.

President Obama has created more jobs in his first two years than George W. Bush did during both of his terms. Did you know that? The stimulus has created somewhere north of 3 million jobs. Is that a failure by your definition?

Nearly all the banks have repayed the bailout money profit to the U.S. taxpayer. Is that a failure?http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/31/bu...1taxpayer.html

The auto industry is showing signs of growth and being profitable for the first time in years. Is that a failure?

See you and GMScud, for that matter, throw out these blanket statements; "Obama's a failure" or "Everything he's tried has failed". WTF? That's not telling me anything. And what the hell is everything??

He did what he said he was going to in both Iraq and Afghanistan. Is the economy where we want it to be - of course not. But surely you, of all people, don't believe that government can solve all problems.

As far as Palin, well, that's just my opinion of course. I think she'll run.

"The second jobs bill for small businesses that you're referring to will use untapped TARP funds, so it won't add anything to the deficit."


So now if its money we allready plan to spend it does not add to dept? Try that with your own check book and let me know how that works out. LOL You may want to run for office because thats how they think up there on both sides.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Just thought I'd help FD out a bit here.

Arnold Kling, Marc De Vos,
RealClearPolitics - Obama's State Capitalism: A Failure of Modesty

Allan Meltzer - professor of economics at Carnegie Mellon
Allan Meltzer: Why Obamanomics Has Failed - WSJ.com

Peter Morici, a business professor at the University of Maryland and former chief economist at the U.S. International Trade Commission, said Mr. Obama's proposed small-business lending fund is "a drop in the bucket" compared with what is needed. With the estate tax scheduled to be reimposed at the end of this year, he said, small businesses will suffer even more.
"I can't imagine a president with a more anti-small-business agenda than Barack Obama," Mr. Morici said. "What you saw in the Rose Garden was the cynical enterprise of a cynical man. He simply doesn't believe in the private sector, and it shows in his actions." (Stephen Dinan and Kara Rowland, "'Stimulus' or not, Obama seeks new spending,'" Washington Times, 6/13/2010)

University of Chicago’s Eugene Fama and Columbia University’s Charles Calomiris
Obvious Failure of Stimulus Becomes Obvious Even To Economists - Hit & Run : Reason Magazine

Jeffrey Sachs
Keynesian Economist, Jeffrey Sachs Says President Obama's Stimulus has Failed | The Hinterland Gazette

Really? A little bit of fuzzy math I'd say. Here's the real story.

The new Democratic claim about job creation*|*KeithHennessey.com


Also, from the below Heritage article:
When the President first began selling his stimulus plan to the American people in November 2008, he promised it would create 2.5 million jobs. But as employment fell at the end of 2008, President-elect Obama increased his employment promise by one million to 3.5 millions jobs created. At the time, employment stood at about 134.3 million. Using these two data points, one can objectively establish the Obama jobs target for December 2010 at 137.8 million. Fast forward to July 2010 and the latest jobs report shows total U.S. employment at almost 130.5 million. This means President Obama’s stimulus has failed to meet its own standard for success by 7.4 million jobs.

Both Bush and Obama had a hand in TARP so this one isn't all on Obama. But, Huff Post thinks there are several failures of TARP.

Top Official, Citing TARP, Doubts Obama's Small Business Lending Plan

Small Banks STILL Struggling Despite Wall Street Bailout

TARP Global Impact: U.S. Bailout Helped Overseas Banks

Bailed-Out Banks Finance 'Legalized Loan Shark' Payday Lenders, Says New Report

Here's some more links:

Fifth TARP Bank Fails, Likely Wiping Out Taxpayer Stake - Washington Wire - WSJ

I haven't fact checked this one, but there's some interesting points here.

Why TARP Was a Taxpayer Failure But a Political Class Success

The GM & Chrysler bailout suceeded in saving GM and thousands of jobs, but it's certainly not a model that should be used going forward.

Many on the left don't think so.

More U.S. Troops Killed in Afghanistan Under Obama Than Under Bush | MichaelMoore.com


Don't believe all the numbers that come out of the Administration.

Morning Bell: Why the Obama Stimulus Failed | The Foundry: Conservative Policy News.

It's going to be tough to read all of that...can you summarize and name the economists please? Thanks.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

It's going to be tough to read all of that...can you summarize and name the economists please? Thanks.

No worries. 12th asked for one, so I thought I'd give him a few to pick from.

Kling - quick bio
Arnold Kling's personal web page
Kling argues that the collapse of the housing market and the financial crisis disrupted what had been "a sustainable pattern of specialization and trade" and that we need to let the market economy develop a new one.
Instead, the policies of the Obama Democrats have been aimed at propping up the old order -- holding up housing prices and the mortgage market, keeping the Detroit auto companies in place, maintaining the lush standard of living of public employee union members (the purpose of the $26 billion the House was summoned back to Washington to approve Tuesday).
Maintaining unsustainable patterns of production, Kling writes, prevents the trial-and-error process of private investment that creates new jobs and patterns of production that will be sustainable.

Marc De Vos - quick bio
Marc De Vos index
Across the Atlantic, Marc De Vos, director of the Itinera Institute, a Brussels think tank, advances similar arguments in his book "After the Meltdown." The financial crisis, he argues, has brought a revival of "state capitalism," in which governments "have an increased and distorting role in economics."
"The state should be the partner of the market, not the owner or manipulator of the market," he writes. "Governments should not pick economic winners and losers. The state may be back, but the politicians should be modest."

Meltzer's is a good read, from my perspective

Eugene Fama - wiki bio
Eugene Fama - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
What has Fama learned from the crisis, then? “I learned a lot about government overreactions but not much about recessions,” he tells me. Confronted with a sharp economic downturn, governments face political pressure to act; stimulus spending and other state interventions seem sensible, even when the history of past crises suggests otherwise. Worse, the new public debt and regulations then hobble economic recovery. Rebounding from the post-2007 recession would have been quicker, Fama believes, if the government had mostly let free markets clean up the mess, reestablish true prices, and select the enterprises able to survive.

Sachs - quick bio
Prof. Jeffrey Sachs, Director - The Earth Institute, Columbia University
He's a lefty and Keynesian proponent who thinks Obama essentially hasn't gone far enough.
"Little bits of these efforts are strewn through the stimulus legislation, the pending climate legislation and elsewhere. But the administration has not done the hard work to bring these complex initiatives to reality. Intercity rail does not just appear by itself. Direct-voltage transmission lines require a new federal and regional power grid strategy. Nuclear power requires presidential leadership to get moving again. Carbon-capture and storage requires a partnership of science and industry, backed in early stages by public technology funds.
The president has lost the economic initiative, weighed down by a tedious fight between two outmoded ideologies: Keynesianism and supply-side tax cuts, as well as by the president’s excessive deference to Congress.
The president occasionally sings these lyrics but has not yet presented a plan. Move now, Mr President, or we will spend our time digging out of the next consumer bust and buying our technology from China."

If you only read two, read the Meltzer and the Job Creation link from Hennesey. Most of the rest is pretty much just piling on.

[wilsowilso]

It's all well and good to find economists that think the Obama administration's economic plans have been unsuccesful, but find me an economist that argues that the eight years of Bush economic policies and fiscal irresponsibility that got us into this god awful mess in the first place was a better alternative. Good luck.

Now ask yourself what the current Republican economic strategy is.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by wilsowilso

It's all well and good to find economists that think the Obama administration's economic plans have been unsuccesful, but find me an economist that argues that the eight years of Bush economic policies and fiscal irresponsibility that got us into this god awful mess in the first place was a better alternative. Good luck.

Now ask yourself what the current Republican economic strategy is.

Those responses where to 12th saying that we could not find one economists who would say the stimulus failed. I guess when the skins loose we can blame that on Zorn. I'll be the first to say Bush and congress where both fiscally irresponsible and that's one of Obama's and congresses problems today. Thats also why the Tea Party is growing.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'm loving the cannibalism going on within the Republican party.

I'm sure by now you've seen the news about the Tea Party candidate, Christine O'Donnell, beating out the favored Republican candidate in Deleware, who was a sure bet to help them win Joe Biden's old seat.
This race, along with a few others, dashed any hopes the GOP had of winning back the Senate.

I think this is good news for President Obama and Dems leading up to 2012.

The more you hear about this woman the scarier it gets

FOXNews.com - O'Donnell: No Witchcraft Since High School

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

The more you hear about this woman the scarier it gets

FOXNews.com - O'Donnell: No Witchcraft Since High School

So now your going back to high school?LOL Funny how you look at this but didn't seem to care that Obama hung out with people who bombed police cars.

[12thMan]

This woman is melting faster than the wicked witch. LOL

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

This woman is melting faster than the wicked witch. LOL

So she is dropping like Obama's arpproval rating. LOL

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

So now your going back to high school?LOL Funny how you look at this but didn't seem to care that Obama hung out with people who bombed police cars.

I'm going back to high school?? I didn't write the article.

The witchcraft stuff is wacky, but I'm more concerned about her views on sex, AIDS, and her anti-lust platform.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

The more you hear about this woman the scarier it gets

FOXNews.com - O'Donnell: No Witchcraft Since High School

Once again, where do they find these people? I want to see what Bill Maher has in his video library of her.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

The witchcraft stuff is wacky, but I'm more concerned about her views on sex, AIDS, and her anti-lust platform.

Or giving up Anne Frank.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by saden1

Once again, where do they find these people? I want to see what Bill Maher has in his video library of her.

Did you see Real Time this weekend? He's got a lot of good stuff on her and he's going to keep playing clips until she comes on his show.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Did you see Real Time this weekend? He's got a lot of good stuff on her and he's going to keep playing clips until she comes on his show.

Yeah, I saw that. I hope he delivers the clips all at once regardless of whether she comes on or not. She's going to do the typical Republican weasel sh*t and disappear for a while or only talk through the fair and balanced Fox News. In any case, she is done. I'm fairly certain of that.