Is Roger Goodell Good For the NFL?

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

Goodell has done an okay job that's been punctuated by a lot of really bad decisions -- I remember reading an article about how players really hate goodell and someone remarked that even though Tagliabue wasn't exactly buddy buddy with the players, most people in the league respected him. Not so with Goodell

A lot of really bad decisions? Really?

The players that you asert "really hate him" just signed on to a 10-year agreement leaving him - - or whomever is his successor - - in charge of the league and their punsihments.

The revenues have grown under Goodell from about $8B when he took over to approximately $9.2B (estimated for 2011). That is a 15% increase over a period of time when the economy has not been in great shape.

Whether or not the players "respect" Goodell is irrelevant. If I worked for WalMart and did not respect Sam Walton's descendants, it would not matter even a little bit.

Under his watch, revenues are up and there is a decade of labor peace. Explain to me how either of those things might be "bad for the league".

Then enumerate all of his really bad decisions and tell me how important they are for the NFL when compared to increased revenues and labor peace.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by GusFrerotte

This is a new direction to the threads in here, but whether or not Goodell is good for the NFL is almost a moot issue, as the NFL, as well as most other pro sports leagues(FIFA, and foreign sports included) are becoming more akin to WWE entertainment than anything. Sorry, just too much money passing hands in Vegas, Atlantic City, and elsewhere for there not to be big corruption in pro sports, with the NFL being top dog. This issue has been pre Goodell in all fairness, but this guy is a joke. Fining guys for hits that were OK 10, 15, 20 years ago. No TD celebrations, phantom calls with flags flying like crazy, momentum killing holding calls, etc, is rather lame. I can appreciate what he is trying to do with expanding the NFL to Europe, but that is a pipedream at best. Nationalism is creeping back into the fore in Europe, especially E Europe. I don't think they would want their local teams to be filled up with yanks, while their FIFA squad is of their own kind. Also, Europe is really hurting economically, I don't think you are going to get most Europeans to fork over that kind of $$$$$$$$ to see American football. Shoot FIFA games can't get sold out crowds most of the time, as they have to put their money to the necessities like food, clothing, rent. In short, Goodell can't escape the ever deteriorating world economy. In my opinion Goodell is just tightening the corporate grip on the NFL and I think if it continues people will lose interest, say a good 15-20 years down the road.

1. At one time, there was no penalty for facemasking. They change the rule. So now calls are made - - and sometimes fines levied - - for things that were OK in the past. That is called "evolving the game"...

2. If you think that fan disagreement with calls by referees is new to the Goodell era of the NFL, you are seriously mistaken.

3. "Back in the day" there were no TD celebrations. If you are going to lambaste the leage for calling things now that were not called 20 years ago, then applaud the league for going back to its roots with no TD celebrations. Or at least try to be consistent in your criticisms...

4. The NFL as a novelty in Europe has worked VERY well. The "London game" sells about 80,000 tix every year. This year it will be a home game for the Cardinals who do not sell 80,000 tix to their home games in Arizona very often. History says that "American football" is not going to be a big seller in Europe if it is there on a permanent basis. The WLAF - - under various guises - - showed that.

5. In order for the NFL to "lose grip" in 15 - 20 years, one of two conditions has to obtain:

A. Something replaces the NFL as the top dog sports attraction in the US

B. Americans find something else to do with their leisure time than follow sports.

That leads me to ask: Which of those two things will it be?

If you pick A, tell me what will replace the NFL as the American national sports obsession

If you pick B, tell me what sorts of things Americans are going to choose to do as they begin to focus on something other than sports.

[mlmpetert]

Kickoff rule not going away during 2011 season | ProFootballTalk

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

A lot of really bad decisions? Really?

The players that you asert "really hate him" just signed on to a 10-year agreement leaving him - - or whomever is his successor - - in charge of the league and their punsihments.

The revenues have grown under Goodell from about $8B when he took over to approximately $9.2B (estimated for 2011). That is a 15% increase over a period of time when the economy has not been in great shape.

Whether or not the players "respect" Goodell is irrelevant. If I worked for WalMart and did not respect Sam Walton's descendants, it would not matter even a little bit.

Under his watch, revenues are up and there is a decade of labor peace. Explain to me how either of those things might be "bad for the league".

Then enumerate all of his really bad decisions and tell me how important they are for the NFL when compared to increased revenues and labor peace.

Fans don't care how much money the league makes. We care about the actual games. Under his watch too many games are being decided by calls. Too many game changing flags are being thrown. Guys are being fined ridiculous amounts of money. In that area he's done a terrible job. Goodell seems obsessed with fining guys and making a collision sport too safe of a sport.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Kickoff rule not going away during 2011 season | ProFootballTalk

It has to go next year. One of the worst rule changes I've ever seen.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Fans don't care how much money the league makes. We care about the actual games. Under his watch too many games are being decided by calls. Too many game changing flags are being thrown. Guys are being fined ridiculous amounts of money. In that area he's done a terrible job. Goodell seems obsessed with fining guys and making a collision sport too safe of a sport.

Yeah. The WWE makes TONS of money, maybe the NFL should be more like them?

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Fans don't care how much money the league makes. We care about the actual games. Under his watch too many games are being decided by calls. Too many game changing flags are being thrown. Guys are being fined ridiculous amounts of money. In that area he's done a terrible job. Goodell seems obsessed with fining guys and making a collision sport too safe of a sport.

Excuse me, but the folks who hire Roger Goodell care a whole lot about making money. In fact, that is the ONLY reason that there is an NFL in the first place. If Roger Goodell wer the biggest fan-favorite executive ever in the history of sports but he oversaw the NFL as revenues went into the tank, he would be fired in a heartbeat.

The fans pay the money, but the NFL - - and the players too truth be told -- do not give a single rat's ass what fans think. Just buy your tickets and/or watch the games and/or buy some logo gear. If you do that, everyone is happy.

If you get angry about the Commish or the CBA terms or the announcing crews on TV, well, that's just fine for you to have an opinion - - but be sure to renew those season tix...

So, are you going to stop watching the Skins and/or the NFL because of all the awful things Goodell has done? If not, the owners, players and league execs can chalk up your expression of ire as one more example of impotence.

If you are really going to give up the NFL, the league will not be happy - - but you are only one person. Now if 5 million fans decided to "walk away", the league would sit up and take notice immediately. If you and your 4,999,999 other friends wanted Roger Goodell tarred and feathered in exchange for your return to the stands or to the front of your TV sets, the NFL might just accede to your wishes.

Until then, please continue to enjoy Roger Goodell as the NFL Commish because he is EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL in his job - - despite the fact that you are unhappy with referee calls and fines levied on players.

[Hog1]

Your a rough dude SC....Stop, Drop and Roll.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Excuse me, but the folks who hire Roger Goodell care a whole lot about making money. In fact, that is the ONLY reason that there is an NFL in the first place. If Roger Goodell wer the biggest fan-favorite executive ever in the history of sports but he oversaw the NFL as revenues went into the tank, he would be fired in a heartbeat.

The fans pay the money, but the NFL - - and the players too truth be told -- do not give a single rat's ass what fans think. Just buy your tickets and/or watch the games and/or buy some logo gear. If you do that, everyone is happy.

If you get angry about the Commish or the CBA terms or the announcing crews on TV, well, that's just fine for you to have an opinion - - but be sure to renew those season tix...

So, are you going to stop watching the Skins and/or the NFL because of all the awful things Goodell has done? If not, the owners, players and league execs can chalk up your expression of ire as one more example of impotence.

If you are really going to give up the NFL, the league will not be happy - - but you are only one person. Now if 5 million fans decided to "walk away", the league would sit up and take notice immediately. If you and your 4,999,999 other friends wanted Roger Goodell tarred and feathered in exchange for your return to the stands or to the front of your TV sets, the NFL might just accede to your wishes.

Until then, please continue to enjoy Roger Goodell as the NFL Commish because he is EXTREMELY SUCCESSFUL in his job - - despite the fact that you are unhappy with referee calls and fines levied on players.

I don't think you understood my post. Yes the folks who hire him (the owners) care. But does the average fan sit around and worry about whether or not the NFL is making money? No. They/We care about the game and how it's played. We don't give a damn about the business side.

I never said I was giving up on the NFL. I would never do that. But the shitty calls week after week after week totally ruins the fabric of what the game is all about. And he's the one pushing player safety. It's football. Guys are going to get hurt. If he's so worried about player safety then why did he want the players to play 18 games? So right there that tells me he's full of shit.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Kickoff rule not going away during 2011 season | ProFootballTalk

And why was this rule put in place? Player safety. How about teaching guys not to lower their heads when running down field to bust a wedge? Just another way to ruin the game.

[mlmpetert]

Watching the first half of the Bears Giants game last night really really upset me about the new kick off rule. Its absolutely rediculous.

Donnie Nickey tees off on kickoff rule | ProFootballTalk

Nickey acknowledges that he has a vested interest in the new rule, but his points are still valid, despite the fact that roster spots are a zero-sum game, and that the change in the rule will actually create other jobs. “The first sign of the kickoff’s extinction was the elimination of the four man wedge,” Nickey said. “That eliminated the need for a wedgebuster, which is how I earned my job. I think the NFL is destroying the true game of football and the physicality that America has grown to love. For someone who has never played the game to make so many changes unchecked is criminal. Paul Brown is rolling over in his grave because of all the changes made in the name of ‘player safety.’”

The core of Nickey’s concern relates to the ongoing effort to protect men who don’t want to be protected. “People go to NASCAR races to see wrecks,” Nickey said. “People go to football games to see long touchdowns and devastating hits. It’s an injustice to the game and the men who have made their living covering kickoffs and sacrificing their bodies to have their jobs made obsolete.”

That’s really the heart of the debate, as it relates to helmet-to-helmet hits or the kickoff return or any other longstanding aspect of the game that the league currently is (or eventually will be) trying to minimize or eliminate. We’ve yet to see an NFL player retire due to fear of the possible long-term consequences of concussions or other injuries. Now that the risks are fully known by everyone, why not let the men who play the game assume those risks, if they want?

Humans take risks all the time, for far less money than what pro (and some college) athletes earn. Whether it’s because of that aspect of human nature that allows young men to assume nothing bad will ever happen to them or that permits them to not care, they want to play the game. We don’t stop them from driving motorcycles or riding bulls or jumping out of planes or signing up for the military or climbing large rocks or taking a small boat down a raging river or hiking in places where large bears and other predators hang out or doing countless other things that could get them injured or worse. Why has the NFL decided to try to force changes in the name of long-term health and safety onto men who now understand the risks, who have compared the relatively small number of historical bad outcomes to the many more former players who live productive, healthy lives for decades after retiring, and who simply want to play football?

We’d have far less concern about the issue if the changes were better engineered to ensure that the game will become safer. Changing the spot of the kickoff simply removes bullets from the gun, and potentially makes the gun more dangerous when it’s used. As to the broader issue of hits to and with the helmet, we’d simply like to see rules changes that are tied more clearly to intentional behavior and less to chance.

Either way, the league has glossed over the real issue. The players now know the risks, so none of them can sue later and claim that the risks were concealed. The players are willing to accept the risks. So why is the league changing the game to protect grown men from a risk they’re willing to embrace?

[MTK]

Of course active players don't care, or they pretend not to, but when they are retired they sure will care, and then you end up with this:

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...egligence.html

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

And why was this rule put in place? Player safety. How about teaching guys not to lower their heads when running down field to bust a wedge? Just another way to ruin the game.

It's not quite as simple as that. You don't have to lower your head to suffer the consequences from a high speed impact.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I don't think you understood my post. Yes the folks who hire him (the owners) care. But does the average fan sit around and worry about whether or not the NFL is making money? No. They/We care about the game and how it's played. We don't give a damn about the business side.

I never said I was giving up on the NFL. I would never do that. But the shitty calls week after week after week totally ruins the fabric of what the game is all about. And he's the one pushing player safety. It's football. Guys are going to get hurt. If he's so worried about player safety then why did he want the players to play 18 games? So right there that tells me he's full of shit.

Actually, I think I understood what your wrote quite well. The question is whether or not Roger Goodell is good for the NFL? And the answer to that is that he is fabulously good for the NFL.

Maybe you and a cadre of other fans do not like most of the things that he has done in his tenure as the Commish. That's fine. It is also irrelevant to the question about whether he is good for the NFL.

I know you didn't say you would give up on the NFL but my point is that unless you and several million of your closest friends do exactly that, then any rhetorical flourishes about how Roger Goodell is "ruining the game" or how you parse the evidence to conclude that he is "full of shit" (your words) are nothing more than hot air. The owners hired him and will keep him on as long as the money is right.

You and your friends - - the ones who agree with your complaints about how bad he is for the games - - are destined to be very unhappy folks for a LONG time because you don't care enough about the business side of the NFL to realize that is why Roger Goodell will stay there. And if you paid even a little attention to the business side you would realize that you and your firends are helping to assure that he stays there.

Oh, by the way, about the "shitty calls" that "ruin the fabric of the game", can you name for me any sport where fans do not complain about officiating? I cannot. And I spent 37 years of my life as a sporting official mainly in basketball but to include baseball, football, soccer and tennis. In that time, I never met an official who could say that fans were happy with all of his/her calls. And I worked for more people in the analgous position to "league commissioner" than I could count. Assigning ANY culpability for "shitty calls" (by your personal standard) to the NFL Commissioneer is quite a stretch.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

And why was this rule put in place? Player safety. How about teaching guys not to lower their heads when running down field to bust a wedge? Just another way to ruin the game.

Why are there seat belt laws for people in autos? Just teach folks to drive slowly and safely and there won't be any accidents...

Same argument for helmet laws for motorcycles...

The most amazing element of the "player safety" situation today is that it is "managment" that is out front on the issue and it is the "union" that is taking a back seat. In the history of the labor movement in the US, worker safety was a top-shelf issue for unions and it was management that basically did not give a damn. Here in 2011, those positions are stood on their heads...