Week 6 Washington Redskins vs Minnesota Vikings Pregame Thread

[JoeRedskin]

and done on that topic. Now to Sunday.

I don't like our chances. We hold Peterson to respectable numbers but we make Ponder look all pro'ish. There D-line destroys our O-line and Morris has no where to go ...

and RGIII can't remember what inning it is.

[Sonny9TD]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

First, thank you. Reasonableness is something for which would all should strive.

Second, as to the point, I think a considerable amount of the decision has been taken away from the players - the concussion guidelines are something relatively new. At the same time, one could look at borderline players and a few of them saying "Look, I gotta play or I will be out of a job. I'll sign whatever waiver you want me to." When does the individual have the right to assume whatever risk he wants? As long as a player is fully informed of the dangers, can owners and coaches deny them the right to take the risk in order to play for a couple more years? Maybe football is all they have and, as borderline players, they need to bank all they while they can?

Safety, of course, is paramount - but, in emphasizing safety, when does it begin to infringe a player's right to take on risk for profit?

Indeed. Most interesting.

[SCRedskinsFan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

(1) I did read your original post - did you? The specific question within it was directed "to those of you who had/thought you had concussions" and asked for descriptions by those people of their symptoms. In the post, before receiving responses to your, apparently, rhetorical question, you concluded that "with a real concussion you're not going to be able to do much".

I have never had a concussion so I could not address your specific question and was not attempting to do so. Rather, your conclusions as to the diagnosis and post trauma symptoms of a "real concussion" appeared blatantly wrong to me (i.e. unless you are incapacitated for some significant length of time - "a few days" by your example - it is not a real concussion). Further, your conclusions appeared to be predicated on the erroneous assumption that concussions do not vary greatly in severity or, alternatively, that there is no such thing as a "mild" concussion. These conclusions appeared based on either (a) your own medical training and experience; or (b) the statement from your doctor. I focused on your doctor's statement rather than the inherent arrogance necessary to reach such conclusions based on your own medical knowledge.

(2) Given that your doctor's statement appeared blatantly wrong even to a layman like me, I was curious and googled "concussions classification". As a result, I got all sorts of scales/classifications for judging "mild" v. "severe" concussions with descriptions of their short term and long term effects and addressing both "the risk of further trauma (as in shots to the head) after a concussion" and "the long term effects different for severe vs "mild" concussions". I simply did not post them all b/c (a) it's easy enough for you to do the google research all on your own; and (b) it was irrelevant to the point I was asserting.

My point, which clearly escaped you, was simply that your doctor's assertion that all concussions present an equal short term risk is a broad over-generalization and, for the point you asserted, wrong. "Real concussions" come in a variety of levels and a person who "take[s] a shot to the head and feel[s] a little dazed" may very well be concussed. As a quick google search will tell you, such an individual requires different treatment and recovery time than one who has "several days of nauseau, fogginess and generally not feeling like [their] feet were under [them]". Diagnosing the trauma and determing the best treatment, however, is probably best left to doctors. Just not yours apparently.

(3) I never said your doctor "lied to you". I just asserted his statement was wrong and blatantly so such that it would make me doubt his credentials and skill.

Alles klar, herr Kommisar?

Since I agree with all of your arguments, let me correct your closing statement:

Herr would always be capitalized, and Kommissar needs another "s".

Alles klar?

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Sonny9TD

Excellent. Where were all these nuerologists or the profession of nuerology when players from yesterdays can't even tie there shoes now? I'm sure they would have given them the OK to play too after 3 or 4 days and could tell the doctor how many fingers he was holding up. It's a miracle they now know it all and clear someone to play 7 days later.Maybe if some of the people who are so sure he should play got their brain scrambled or had this happen to their son and forgot what the score and time was they may not be so ready and arrogant to volunteer RG3 to play seven days later.

Ask Brian Dawkins how he feels about it. Someone who knows more about this than anyone on this board when doctors who cleared him to play when in fact Brian said he wasn't ready to play. I'll take his word since he has been cleared to play by doctors when he knew he shouldn't have been cleared.

RG3 just had a brain injury and now 4 days later everything is just fine. Doctors are all knowing now. They know everything there is to know about the brain now. Sometimes I forget. I wonder if these same doctors would clear their son to play so soon? I highly doubt it.

I might be wrong. But I doubt it. I doubt Brian Dawkins is wrong either.
This is just the reason we drafted Kirk Cousins for when some say we shouldn't have. I think a week off is better than none.

If he hurts his leg or arm then take him out since you can see that but if he hurts his brain screw him. He'll be just fine. Be tough and go get em now RG3.

From someone who has worked in the construction industry for plenty of his life. From someone who knows people first hand that have destroyed their bodies building houses. From someone who has desperately needed surgery but never had it because months off from work means months off from eating.

Guess what... If you knew my or my friends problems, would you throw your kids out on the streets and say houses are bad because the people building them are hurting themselves? and not making millions per year to do so.

Are you honestly going to force being homeless on people because its bad that someone like me has a messed up shoulder and back for life, all from building you a place to live? Or does you having a place to live all of a sudden mean im worthless among the grand picture and my daughter not having a father is perfectly fine for you? Who cares if I destroy myself so you can be comfortable... Right?

As cold as this is going to sound. No one is required to play football. That doesnt mean treat them like animals, but it does mean they have to actually play the game at some point to get paid. Everyone of them knows the problems later in life. Im sure most of them already know of some of those problems they could have destroying their body at a fraction of the pay as well in construction or some other industry, ask anyone who used to work with Asbestos years ago.

So when you kick your kids to the streets to fend for themselves because living indoors causes your empathy meter to jump through the roof, then complain about the NFL. Until then, accept that people like me, in an attempt to feed and house our own families, have destroyed our bodies for your own personal pleasure. The same thing that you are claiming we shouldnt do. After all, our families being fed arent good enough reasons apparently to make money for, according to you.

Moral of the story: A lot of people damage themselves in every day life. They do it for money, fame, whatever reason. I would love every occupation to have zero negative health effects, but that isnt reasonable to expect. What can be done is to try and minimize that damage, but other than that...

Bleeding heart yourself about football all day long, just dont forget that a lot of what you use in every day life required blood sweat and tears to bring to your house for your comfort. By the way, cell phone towers are really tall. People have fallen from them setting up and maintaining cell phone towers. You support giving up cell phone use? After all, those towers need constant maintenance, if we use cell phones. We force a job into society. Which is climbing a thousand feet in the sky. And people will fall and die. You against cell phones now? I could be wrong but falling a thousand feet to your death is a lot worse than getting a concussion. And you get paid a lot less to fall to your death than you do to get a concussion in the NFL. I would rather risk concussions in the NFL for 100 times the pay if you really want the truth. Im sure all of you do as well.

Sounds cold, but reality a lot of times is. Of course all of you already know the cold reality of football players. Yet where will you be on Sunday? Rooting on RG3. If you are against RG3 playing... dont watch. If you are against people hurting themselves for your pleasure. Dont watch football, destroy your house and become homeless, and toss your cell phone in the trash... Among multiple other things.

With my body the way it is as someone who is only in his forties and knowing the dangers of the NFL. I would change out my pay and damage done to my body for the pay and damage from the NFL in a second...

[Meks]

for anyone wondering why ppl are scared, at least for THIS week and being its 7 days later, about what could happen with being cleared to play too soon......

i'll state again for anyone who follows hockey. See Sidney Crosby.

ppl are worried, and passionatley at that, so arguing is stupid. just let ppl worry about the kid. ultimately nothing we say matters lol, he and the doctors and the coaches are the ones who will decide, but if ppl want to express concerns, so be it... no one here is an expert, just passionate about this team and express the views and opinions they have thusly. ease up on eachother we're humans being humans.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

(1) I did read your original post - did you? The specific question within it was directed "to those of you who had/thought you had concussions" and asked for descriptions by those people of their symptoms. In the post, before receiving responses to your, apparently, rhetorical question, you concluded that "with a real concussion you're not going to be able to do much".

I have never had a concussion so I could not address your specific question and was not attempting to do so. Rather, your conclusions as to the diagnosis and post trauma symptoms of a "real concussion" appeared blatantly wrong to me (i.e. unless you are incapacitated for some significant length of time - "a few days" by your example - it is not a real concussion). Further, your conclusions appeared to be predicated on the erroneous assumption that concussions do not vary greatly in severity or, alternatively, that there is no such thing as a "mild" concussion. These conclusions appeared based on either (a) your own medical training and experience; or (b) the statement from your doctor. I focused on your doctor's statement rather than the inherent arrogance necessary to reach such conclusions based on your own medical knowledge.

(2) Given that your doctor's statement appeared blatantly wrong even to a layman like me, I was curious and googled "concussions classification". As a result, I got all sorts of scales/classifications for judging "mild" v. "severe" concussions with descriptions of their short term and long term effects and addressing both "the risk of further trauma (as in shots to the head) after a concussion" and "the long term effects different for severe vs "mild" concussions". I simply did not post them all b/c (a) it's easy enough for you to do the google research all on your own; and (b) it was irrelevant to the point I was asserting.

My point, which clearly escaped you, was simply that your doctor's assertion that all concussions present an equal short term risk is a broad over-generalization and, for the point you asserted, wrong. "Real concussions" come in a variety of levels and a person who "take[s] a shot to the head and feel[s] a little dazed" may very well be concussed. As a quick google search will tell you, such an individual requires different treatment and recovery time than one who has "several days of nauseau, fogginess and generally not feeling like [their] feet were under [them]". Diagnosing the trauma and determing the best treatment, however, is probably best left to doctors. Just not yours apparently.

(3) I never said your doctor "lied to you". I just asserted his statement was wrong and blatantly so such that it would make me doubt his credentials and skill.

Alles klar, herr Kommisar?

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin
Clearly you are not intelligent enough to stay out of the vortex or you would known Garçon was a bust before we signed him and that, because of the need for speed at the WR position, Gaffney was a much better fit because he once fished and so was familiar with Fisher who should turn the Rams into a winner in two years even before he was hired due to the powerhouses he played as a safety for the Houston Oilers while playing on a sprained ankle because he wasn't a wimp but Fisher couldn't beat Gruden when Gruden was coaching the Raiders but was also once a cook at Hooter's so he didn't wait tables and would never have been called a Garçon.

So obviously Shananhan should be fired.



-You do understand, JoeRedskin, that this isn't really a courtroom setting, as it seems like most of your posts are geared toward arguing specific points, disagreeing with other people, and then of course going through the talking points of why they are intelectually inferior and ultimately incorrect. Sometimes its a good thing, sometimes its a chore to read through some of your statements.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

-You do understand, JoeRedskin, that this isn't really a courtroom setting, as it seems like most of your posts are geared toward arguing specific points, disagreeing with other people, and then of course going through the talking points of why they are intelectually inferior and ultimately incorrect. Sometimes its a good thing, sometimes its a chore to read through some of your statements.

It's not courtroom setting??? Let me go through some talking points to discuss why you are ultimately incorrect and intellectually inferior.

My excuse for the long post was that I was suffering from early morning insomnia and needed something to do at 6:30 a.m. If reading my stuff is a chore, ehhh. it's who I am ... and yeah, I probably am a disagreeable old sot.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SCRedskinsFan

Since I agree with all of your arguments, let me correct your closing statement:

Herr would always be capitalized, and Kommissar needs another "s".

Alles klar?

Danke für die Korrektur

[los panda]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Danke für die Korrektur

bitte schön

[Sonny9TD]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

From someone who has worked in the construction industry for plenty of his life. From someone who knows people first hand that have destroyed their bodies building houses. From someone who has desperately needed surgery but never had it because months off from work means months off from eating.

Guess what... If you knew my or my friends problems, would you throw your kids out on the streets and say houses are bad because the people building them are hurting themselves? and not making millions per year to do so.

Are you honestly going to force being homeless on people because its bad that someone like me has a messed up shoulder and back for life, all from building you a place to live? Or does you having a place to live all of a sudden mean im worthless among the grand picture and my daughter not having a father is perfectly fine for you? Who cares if I destroy myself so you can be comfortable... Right?

As cold as this is going to sound. No one is required to play football. That doesnt mean treat them like animals, but it does mean they have to actually play the game at some point to get paid. Everyone of them knows the problems later in life. Im sure most of them already know of some of those problems they could have destroying their body at a fraction of the pay as well in construction or some other industry, ask anyone who used to work with Asbestos years ago.

So when you kick your kids to the streets to fend for themselves because living indoors causes your empathy meter to jump through the roof, then complain about the NFL. Until then, accept that people like me, in an attempt to feed and house our own families, have destroyed our bodies for your own personal pleasure. The same thing that you are claiming we shouldnt do. After all, our families being fed arent good enough reasons apparently to make money for, according to you.

Moral of the story: A lot of people damage themselves in every day life. They do it for money, fame, whatever reason. I would love every occupation to have zero negative health effects, but that isnt reasonable to expect. What can be done is to try and minimize that damage, but other than that...

Bleeding heart yourself about football all day long, just dont forget that a lot of what you use in every day life required blood sweat and tears to bring to your house for your comfort. By the way, cell phone towers are really tall. People have fallen from them setting up and maintaining cell phone towers. You support giving up cell phone use? After all, those towers need constant maintenance, if we use cell phones. We force a job into society. Which is climbing a thousand feet in the sky. And people will fall and die. You against cell phones now? I could be wrong but falling a thousand feet to your death is a lot worse than getting a concussion. And you get paid a lot less to fall to your death than you do to get a concussion in the NFL. I would rather risk concussions in the NFL for 100 times the pay if you really want the truth. Im sure all of you do as well.

Sounds cold, but reality a lot of times is. Of course all of you already know the cold reality of football players. Yet where will you be on Sunday? Rooting on RG3. If you are against RG3 playing... dont watch. If you are against people hurting themselves for your pleasure. Dont watch football, destroy your house and become homeless, and toss your cell phone in the trash... Among multiple other things.

With my body the way it is as someone who is only in his forties and knowing the dangers of the NFL. I would change out my pay and damage done to my body for the pay and damage from the NFL in a second...

Two different animals. Brain injury and sore muscles are two different pies. RG3 isn't going to lose his job if he doesn't play because of a concussion. Let's get that straight right off the bat. I don't mean to sound arrogant if I do but that is a fact for sure. Lots of teams would take him and want him if he did not play. if he is careful with a brain injury he can play longer and make a lot more money than a short time payday. A hip flexor or stinger are something you can play thru. A brain injury not so easy. Aches and pains are one thing a brain injury is a total different thing. I watch to see them or hope they win. They chose this career and they get paid lots of money. I would do also if I could but if RG3 plays thats his decision. Why would I not watch? That is a silly solution for wanting someone to take it easy for a week. Let's be real instead of going down some don't watch if you do not like it tangeant that is just silly. I think you have missed the point entirely. His injury isn't a pulled groin.

Tell Dale Earnhardt Jr. that argument if you feel so strongly about it. Although the scenario is a bit different and others could be hurt as well I guarantee Dale knows that he should take it easy instead of risking further injury and will still have a job although he doesn't race now or next week. He is sitting out the next few races because of guess what? A concussion. He wants to race long term by sitting out now. Same as RG3 if he wanted could sit out now to play long term which means more money. Your argument says that he wouldn't make more money because of not playing now. Just not true. Eventually it's his decision. But maybe it shouldn't be.

[Lotus]

Are the Vikings bringing out the German in us?

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Sonny9TD

Two different animals. Brain injury and sore muscles are two different pies. RG3 isn't going to lose his job if he doesn't play because of a concussion. Let's get that straight right off the bat. I don't mean to sound arrogant if I do but that is a fact for sure. Lots of teams would take him and want him if he did not play. if he is careful with a brain injury he can play longer and make a lot more money than a short time payday. A hip flexor or stinger are something you can play thru. A brain injury not so easy. Aches and pains are one thing a brain injury is a total different thing. I watch to see them or hope they win. They chose this career and they get paid lots of money. I would do also if I could but if RG3 plays thats his decision. Why would I not watch? That is a silly solution for wanting someone to take it easy for a week. Let's be real instead of going down some don't watch if you do not like it tangeant that is just silly. I think you have missed the point entirely. His injury isn't a pulled groin.

Tell Dale Earnhardt Jr. that argument if you feel so strongly about it. Although the scenario is a bit different and others could be hurt as well I guarantee Dale knows that he should take it easy instead of risking further injury and will still have a job although he doesn't race now or next week. He is sitting out the next few races because of guess what? A concussion. He wants to race long term by sitting out now. Same as RG3 if he wanted could sit out now to play long term which means more money. Your argument says that he wouldn't make more money because of not playing now. Just not true. Eventually it's his decision. But maybe it shouldn't be.

Part of the problem is you call injuries as sore muscles and blow them off since its not people you know. There is nothing sore about a muscle after working 20 years in construction or a similar profession that requires that type of work. These are people that can no longer function in jobs, and have trouble in life, due to debilitating injuries. People that live with sons and daughters because otherwise they would be homeless since they can no longer work to support themselves.

Where you talk about arrogance, Its an unconscious arrogance, so somewhat forgivable (Of society, not meaning your arrogance specifically). If that unknown guy falls from the cell phone tower, it sucks, but it ultimately doesnt affect you since you dont know them. That 45 year old who can no longer work, that spent his life working his fingers to the bone, that no one has to hear about except his family having to take care of them. However, Athletes on your favorite team, well, you know them. Not personally, but all the media exposure makes it seem like we do. We want to protect them like family.

My point still stands... Keep protecting Dale Earnhardt Jr and RG3, while calling those people that damaged their bodies to the same degree as having a sore muscle and otherwise are just being babies. You actually proved my point.

Btw, things happen in construction sites or other places that cause concussions. But let that cable guy miss an appointment window on Monday from a concussion over the weekend, and all of a sudden long term effects of concussions are less of a concern than rescheduling the cable guy.

[Bucket]

Maybe we should make a Concussion threads..

Man, I feel lucky today. I can just drop my medical insurance. I don't even need to go to the doctors. Next time I have an appointment, i'll just tell the doctor i'm going for a second opinion from the MD professionals at the Warpath.

[JoeRedskin]

^^ lol

If you would like, I can talk to them for you go - I'll hit some talking points and discuss why they are ultimately incorrect and intellectually inferior to everyone on the WP.

[Sonny9TD]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

Part of the problem is you call injuries as sore muscles and blow them off since its not people you know. There is nothing sore about a muscle after working 20 years in construction or a similar profession that requires that type of work. These are people that can no longer function in jobs, and have trouble in life, due to debilitating injuries. People that live with sons and daughters because otherwise they would be homeless since they can no longer work to support themselves.

Where you talk about arrogance, Its an unconscious arrogance, so somewhat forgivable (Of society, not meaning your arrogance specifically). If that unknown guy falls from the cell phone tower, it sucks, but it ultimately doesnt affect you since you dont know them. That 45 year old who can no longer work, that spent his life working his fingers to the bone, that no one has to hear about except his family having to take care of them. However, Athletes on your favorite team, well, you know them. Not personally, but all the media exposure makes it seem like we do. We want to protect them like family.

My point still stands... Keep protecting Dale Earnhardt Jr and RG3, while calling those people that damaged their bodies to the same degree as having a sore muscle and otherwise are just being babies. You actually proved my point.

Btw, things happen in construction sites or other places that cause concussions. But let that cable guy miss an appointment window on Monday from a concussion over the weekend, and all of a sudden long term effects of concussions are less of a concern than rescheduling the cable guy.

I'm not talking about people who get hurt on the job or disabled etc. That is your theme. Mine was RG3 and concussions. You went way off point. What do those people have to do with RG3 not playing for a week to rest a brain injury? You lost me with all that you are talking about. You are probably right about what you're trying to say but its not about resting some after a concussion. So OK what ever your point is i'm sure its a good one and I hope everyone gets the help they need who are injured like everyone else should.