Lost Some Faith In Shanahan

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by milellie111

Why listen or worry about what Elway said? SmootSmack told me my opinion of Shanhan was "stupid" of me to think that he doesn't care about his players health. Obviously SmootSmack knows Shanahan better than Elway does.

First, i give anything Smoot says credibility over anything Goat hears his relative say he heard insiders say that Elways privately says.

Do you even understand the sentence i wrote? Its confusing, because there are so many people involved i nthe chain of communication. Your taking unsubstantied 5th hand information as fact. Beyond that, youre correlating Elway's not being fond of Shanahan as a person with his not caring about his players. Thats like saying, if you dont like a guy for personal reason, that means he doesnt care about his family. Youre twisting Goats comments to support your own twisted view of Shanahan. Goat has enough crazy opinions of his own, he doesnt need your help.

Lets say, for a moment, that nothing got lost in translation in the string of people between Elway and Goat. Lets say Elway really doesnt like Shanahan. For everyone that's worked with/played for Shanahan that doesnt like him, i garantee youll find 10 more that do. Either there is a vast conspiracy between formal coaches, players, and members of the media to lie and say great things about Shanahan, or Shanahan is just like every other human being.... some people like you, some people dont. You can't please everyone.

Finally, if you go all the way back to last offseason, and you go through every media report, Snyder, Allen, Mike, and Kyle were all IN LOVE with RGIII. They loved everything about him - both as a player and as a person. But all of a sudden you think Shanahan doesnt care about Griffin? You are right to question Shanahan's decision - everyone is. I personally think the Skins horribly mismanaged his injury. But to question Shanahan's motivations - to say he doesnt care about his players - its not true. And its out of line.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

I would have taken him out too but now that we've had some time to reflect I think the criticism Shanahan is taking is a little unwarranted.

We don't know all the facts as far as what was going on down on the sidelines or what info he had, or didn't have.

RG3 isn't the first guy in sports history to play hurt. Plenty of guys have been lauded for their courage for playing hurt or sick. And I expect if he somehow pulled that game out he'd be a hero for it. Since we lost it's easier to label it as a bad decision.

It's funny all week anytime I've heard an ex-player talk about it, most have supported the decision to keep him in the game, while those in the media that aren't ex-players are saying it was a bad move.

That is true,and that is exactly why it shouldnt be left up to the player,the coach should no better.
I was listening to the radio yesterday skipping from channel to channel,turned on the nfl channel on Sirius,they were discussing the situation.{I wish like hell I knew who was talking but I dont}
Former player was talking,saying he was in similar situation.He admitted to playing hurt,said "was I the best man to help us win that day,NO,but I was what got us there and I deserved to be in there"
I was flabbergasted and couldnt believe he would admit to that,that should tell you all you need to know about players,most are selfish

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Bingo.

I'll be curious to see how many people in this forum got on Cutler's case when he was taken out of a game last year b/c he was hurt. I can't remember exactly, but I think it may have been a playoffs game or something late in the season.

I was not one of them. I also didn't blame Leslie Frazier for their loss Saturday when he pulled Ponder prior to the game. Injuries happen. There is absolutely no shame in pulling a player due to it. Now, if the guy is playing effectively while hurt, that's one thing. If he's not, it's entirely a different matter.

I have to say that guys like Mark Schlereth piss me off when it comes to players playing with injuries. He was one of those clowns ripping Jay Cutler, and one of those guys saying play RGIII. That's easy for him to say, he has no investment in it. He doesn't have to worry about the next season. I doubt he played with very serious injuries, or any that caused him to be about 40% effective. I guess Mark thinks they should go out there after suffering concussions as well. Hey, that's what a tough guy like Mark would do!

The days of machismo should be over. Sure you play with pain, sure you might even play injured, but there are times where it's simply smarter (for the long and short run) to sit out.

[milellie111]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Yes!

Mil- You rarely participate in any active discussions, but rather starts your own "look at me" threads that are often not necessary

You deserve grief for your "realistic" post because it was filled with so much flawed analysis.

You need to participate more in the active forums. Because right now most people see that you've started a new thread and-even if it's a legit discussion like this one-think "crap, here we go again. Another milellie thread"

Trust me, i am not trying to clutter the board. I honestly didn't see any other threads that related to what i posted about this injury and Mike Shanhans previous track history in Denver with players injuries. I'm not trying to be a know it all or post "look at me" threads.

Realistically, everyone's analysis are flawed. Even Sports commentators who get paid big bucks to give their opinons. Some folks side with Stephen A Smith, some side with Skip Bayless, some think their both idiots. Who's right and who's wrong? At the end of the day, they are just opinions.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Been meaning to ask what you've heard out of Denver since Shanahan's departure? Somewhere you said people think Mike's the nicest guy in football, and though I didn't want to get in a pissing match in the midst of our winning streak it's been on my mind ever since. One of my relatives in Denver who spends time with folks from the Broncos FO has told me Elway privately speaks about his dislike of Shanahan as a person, leader etc. Going along those lines it certainly seems like Mike has left a whole string of burnt bridges in his career.

Your thoughts?

Clearly Elway hated the man:

Question: You got the two Super Bowls, but did your relationship with Mike ever get contentious? Did you ever have moments where you guys butted heads?

Elway: I think that's always the case with quarterbacks and coaches. I butted heads with Dan Reeves. Mike and I butted heads every once in a while, but we were always able to solve it. I think that's part of the deal, especially with quarterbacks, especially with veteran quarterbacks. They feel like they know the right way sometimes, and they're gonna butt heads. But we were always able to get through it. I knew Mike for so long and had such great respect for him that we always figured it out. He was good on both sides. He was give and take, also. But he's a tough guy and that's what makes him a good coach. I was lucky to have him in Denver and be able to play the four years I got to play with him as the head coach.

Redskins Insider - John Elway: Mike Shanahan will turn it around in DC

And just as clearly, Shanahan returned the hate tenfold:

Shanahan said he was confident Elway -- the Hall of Fame QB who won two Super Bowls with Shanahan in Denver -- would find success in the job.

"John is a very bright guy, real smart. I think just having John in the building will help tremendously because of his knowledge of players, just being around the game as long as he has," Shanahan said, via the Washington Post.

Mike Shanahan: John Elway will do well as Broncos' boss

Show me someone, anyone, anywhere ... any link, any quote, that backs up what you say your friends are saying that Elway is saying "privately".

I expect to hear the sound of crickets chirping from The Butt Head. (Not a personal attack, just an synonymous pseudonym for the quoted poster).

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk

Yeah I was just gonna say I've heard some no so great things about Elway. Plus I bumped into him at the HOF in 2008 and he blew off everyone who was asking him for an autograph and kinda came off like a jerk.

Tough to really draw any conclusions. But I mean neither Reeves nor Shanahan would probably give ringing endorsements privately of Elway the person. And probably the same vice-versa.

Plummer can't stand Shanahan. At all. I've been on the other end of the phone when Plummer has laid into thin

On the other hand, Steve Young loves Shanahan. So does Brian Griese

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by milellie111

Trust me, i am not trying to clutter the board. I honestly didn't see any other threads that related to what i posted about this injury and Mike Shanhans previous track history in Denver with players injuries. I'm not trying to be a know it all or post "look at me" threads.

Realistically, everyone's analysis are flawed. Even Sports commentators who get paid big bucks to give their opinons. Some folks side with Stephen A Smith, some side with Skip Bayless, some think their both idiots. Who's right and who's wrong? At the end of the day, they are just opinions.

Just try to involve yourself more with the active threads

Yeah but you were like "we're going to lose this because teams adjust the second time around" but somehow you didn't think we'd adjust? Anyway, that's not what this thread is about anyway

[milellie111]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

First, i give anything Smoot says credibility over anything Goat hears his relative say he heard insiders say that Elways privately says.

Do you even understand the sentence i wrote? Its confusing, because there are so many people involved i nthe chain of communication. Your taking unsubstantied 5th hand information as fact. Beyond that, youre correlating Elway's not being fond of Shanahan as a person with his not caring about his players. Thats like saying, if you dont like a guy for personal reason, that means he doesnt care about his family. Youre twisting Goats comments to support your own twisted view of Shanahan. Goat has enough crazy opinions of his own, he doesnt need your help.

Lets say, for a moment, that nothing got lost in translation in the string of people between Elway and Goat. Lets say Elway really doesnt like Shanahan. For everyone that's worked with/played for Shanahan that doesnt like him, i garantee youll find 10 more that do. Either there is a vast conspiracy between formal coaches, players, and members of the media to lie and say great things about Shanahan, or Shanahan is just like every other human being.... some people like you, some people dont. You can't please everyone.

Finally, if you go all the way back to last offseason, and you go through every media report, Snyder, Allen, Mike, and Kyle were all IN LOVE with RGIII. They loved everything about him - both as a player and as a person. But all of a sudden you think Shanahan doesnt care about Griffin? You are right to question Shanahan's decision - everyone is. I personally think the Skins horribly mismanaged his injury. But to question Shanahan's motivations - to say he doesnt care about his players - its not true. And its out of line.

I never said that Shanahan had it out for RG3 when he was drafted or anything like that. I never even said Shanahan didn't like RG3 as a person or deep down inside is a malicious guy.
In this Sundays game though, i feel that Shanahan put winning and his ego in front of RG3's health. That's what i was saying.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Tough to really draw any conclusions. But I mean neither Reeves nor Shanahan would probably give ringing endorsements privately of Elway the person. And probably the same vice-versa.

Plummer can't stand Shanahan. At all. I've been on the other end of the phone when Plummer has laid into thin

On the other hand, Steve Young loves Shanahan. So does Brian Griese

Bottom line is unless you know the person, you just don't know the person.

And we all have people we don't mesh with for whatever reason.

All of this is a little silly really.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I was not one of them. I also didn't blame Leslie Frazier for their loss Saturday when he pulled Ponder prior to the game. Injuries happen. There is absolutely no shame in pulling a player due to it. Now, if the guy is playing effectively while hurt, that's one thing. If he's not, it's entirely a different matter.

I have to say that guys like Mark Schlereth piss me off when it comes to players playing with injuries. He was one of those clowns ripping Jay Cutler, and one of those guys saying play RGIII. That's easy for him to say, he has no investment in it. He doesn't have to worry about the next season. I doubt he played with very serious injuries, or any that caused him to be about 40% effective. I guess Mark thinks they should go out there after suffering concussions as well. Hey, that's what a tough guy like Mark would do!

The days of machismo should be over. Sure you play with pain, sure you might even play injured, but there are times where it's simply smarter (for the long and short run) to sit out.

Schlereth knows a thing or two about injuries. Even before I googled it, I know that Schlereth had a ton of surgeries. I thought it was 12 or 13. I was close - if you only look at his left knee:

Before ending his playing career Schlereth endured 29 surgeries. Twenty of those surgeries were performed on his knees (15 left, 5 right). After the 13th procedure on his left knee on July 24, 2000, Denver Broncos head coach Mike Shanahan stated, "He has a great pain threshold. I think the doctors said that it was the worst knee that they've ever seen." Schlereth would have two more procedures on his left knee during the 2000 season, his last in the NFL. His injuries are documented on Athlete 360, the new sports medicine television show hosted by Schlereth's former Redskins teammate, Dr. Mark Adickes.

Mark Schlereth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by milellie111

I never said that Shanahan had it out for RG3 when he was drafted or anything like that. I never even said Shanahan didn't like RG3 as a person or deep down inside is a malicious guy.
In this Sundays game though, i feel that Shanahan put winning and his ego in front of RG3's health. That's what i was saying.

You noticed this while eating your 7/11 hot dog?

[CRedskinsRule]

I like Schlereth, he was a great part of the America's Game show that featured the Broncos superbowl win.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by milellie111

I never said that Shanahan had it out for RG3 when he was drafted or anything like that. I never even said Shanahan didn't like RG3 as a person or deep down inside is a malicious guy.
In this Sundays game though, i feel that Shanahan put winning and his ego in front of RG3's health. That's what i was saying.

But you also said this

"It makes me question not only Shanahan's coaching ability, but something far greater.....His humanity and sincere care for his players while trying to win at all costs"

Certainly made me think you were saying Shanahan doesn't really care for his players

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Sometimes leaders make wrong decisions, and they take heat for that too.

The man said he went with his gut. If I have to bet on a football decision, I'll take MS's gut call over The Butt Head's non-DVR watching 20/20 hindsight and friends of friend's BS 8 days a week.

Shanahan made a bad call in this case. He knows it and stood up there and got grilled on it. He will do the same at the next press conference.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Tough to really draw any conclusions. But I mean neither Reeves nor Shanahan would probably give ringing endorsements privately of Elway the person. And probably the same vice-versa.

Plummer can't stand Shanahan. At all. I've been on the other end of the phone when Plummer has laid into thin

On the other hand, Steve Young loves Shanahan. So does Brian Griese

Totally irrelevant, mormons are nice to everyone. And who's Griese?