ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List

[artmonkforhallofamein07]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Why is Peyton better, count the playoffs and superbowls .

In the regular season it's not even close, Peyton by a mile.

Playoff records are definitely a factor, and I give Eli a lot more credit to him in the postseason. He has been the benefactor of some pretty miraculous plays in the playoffs as well.

So I have to say that Peyton is the greatest regular season QB of all time.

Eli is good but not consistently good enough to be considered as good as his brother.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Giantone

And Eli has won 2 super bowl MVPs coming out of the NFC.His playoff record is better than Peytons

Eli is also better than Dan Marino.

[FRPLG]

It's silly to put him last out of the four based on last year. It just is. Now add the knee in and I get why Jaws moved him down at first glance. The more I think on it though my logic says if the knee is enough to move him down under those guys then why exactly are you implying? Are you questioning whether his knee will allow to function similarly to hs past performance or are you questioning whether his knee will keep him out? If it's the former then I think you're nuts. If it's the later then I think you ranked him too high. The ranking doesn't make sense because of that.

[skinsfaninok]

Jaws ranked RG3 13TH.

NFLN Ranked him like 6th .

[FRPLG]

The "winning" QB argument is bogus. 100%. There are 11 players on the field for a team on each offensive play. The QB is obviously the MOST important player of the 11 but he doesn't achieve success or failure alone. Since you can't ascribe 100% of the success/failure to the QB you can't treat overall success/failure as the sole component. Winning QBs don't have some magic power that other QBs don't have...they have a better team. They get no individual credit for that.

As a fan of a competing team I'd rather chalk the Giants success up to one miraculous and unbeatable QB but it isn't true. Their FO is good at building a team and their coach got his head out of his ass and figured out how to coach it before he got canned. They also happen to have a good QB. But he isn't better than at least 4 other QBs in league during his tenure. Including his brother. 2-1 in SBs or not.

[Giantone]

What the thread proves is the list will always be different depending on what criteria is used ,is it clutch play, come from behind wins, regular season stats , playoffs , Super bowls .It's easy to say all of the above but as we have seen not all list include all categories.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by CultBrennan59

Top 5 right now, IMO:
1. Peyton Manning
2. Aaron Rodgers
3. Tom Brady
4. Drew Brees
5. Joe Flacco

I could have gone a lot of different routes for that last spot. Matt Ryan, Eli, and Big Ben. I eliminated Ryan because he's only won 1 playoff game in his 5 years in the league, and he throws to a Hall of Fame TE, and two Pro Bowl WRs. Eli had a decent year last year. He's 2/2 in Super Bowls, but he also throws lots of picks. Big Ben is very good, but when he gets hurt (which is quiet often) his team doesn't do as well, but yet still good enough to win games. Its not like a Peyton Manning where that team crumbles. Also Big Ben may have 2 super bowl rings, but he was awful in his first super bowl, and in his 3rd super bowl appearance his turnovers were ultimately the difference from his team winning and losing. Flacco has always been a good QB, but last year he really did well and come playoff time he outperformed Brady for a 2nd year in a row. In the Super Bowl this year he played better than Brady, either Manning, Brees and very comparable than Rodgers did in their respective super bowl appearances.

Good breakdown of the #5 spot and options associated with it. I wonder if Flacco would even be in the consideration if Rahim Moore had taken two more steps before jumping.. Flacco is the most recent example IMO of people being prisoners of the moment.. He's a good QB, no question.. Elite? Eh.. Top 5? Don't see it. One of my criteria is 'can he make up for the deficiencies of his team around him (lack of running game, poor defense, shaky OL). I don't know that Flacco can do any of that.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Good breakdown of the #5 spot and options associated with it. I wonder if Flacco would even be in the consideration if Rahim Moore had taken two more steps before jumping.. Flacco is the most recent example IMO of people being prisoners of the moment.. He's a good QB, no question.. Elite? Eh.. Top 5? Don't see it. One of my criteria is 'can he make up for the deficiencies of his team around him (lack of running game, poor defense, shaky OL). I don't know that Flacco can do any of that.

Yeah and don't get me wrong any of those are guys are good options, but like I said, this is my list Right Now, not history of these guys careers. So heading into 2013's season I see these guys as the top 5 best QBs. Obviously at this point next year we'll be changing this list around. (Hopefully) RG3 will be on this list next year.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

One of my criteria is 'can he make up for the deficiencies of his team around him (lack of running game, poor defense, shaky OL).

I think if I had to synthesize my criteria it would come down to this.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Eli is also better than Dan Marino.

Ya think Dan would take one of Eli's super bowl wins , IMO hell yes....in a NY min!

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Ya think Dan would take one of Eli's super bowl wins , IMO hell yes....in a NY min!

Of course Marino wishes that he had a ring. But that doesn't mean that Eli is better than Marino and so is irrelevant to a discussion about who's better.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

The "winning" QB argument is bogus. 100%. There are 11 players on the field for a team on each offensive play. The QB is obviously the MOST important player of the 11 but he doesn't achieve success or failure alone. Since you can't ascribe 100% of the success/failure to the QB you can't treat overall success/failure as the sole component. Winning QBs don't have some magic power that other QBs don't have...they have a better team. They get no individual credit for that.

I don't think that anyone said that the overall success of a QB's team should be used as the sole component for ranking him. For example, we all know that Dan Marino was one of the greatest QB's ever even though he didn't play on dominant teams.

On the other hand, we also know that Tony Romo choked in big games when he had good players surrounding him. Shouldn't that affect his ranking?

Although winning or losing in big games is not an absolute when ranking QB's, I think that it should be used as a factor for ranking QB's who had their chances.

[skinsfan69]

A big big part of our offense was the threat of RG3 running the ball. I would say the weakness of the offense was when defenses knew we had to throw. The offense was ranked pretty low on 3rd downs. That's not all RG3 but some of it is. He has to improve there.

Also..did everyone around here just forget about Cam Newton? I think he's still a pretty damn good player and you could put him right in there with the guys we're talking about..RG3, Wilson, Kap...Can anyone name his wr's outside of 50 year old Steve Smith?

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Of course Marino wishes that he had a ring. But that doesn't mean that Eli is better than Marino and so is irrelevant to a discussion about who's better.

It wasn't me that brought it up.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

A big big part of our offense was the threat of RG3 running the ball. I would say the weakness of the offense was when defenses knew we had to throw. The offense was ranked pretty low on 3rd downs. That's not all RG3 but some of it is. He has to improve there.

Also..did everyone around here just forget about Cam Newton? I think he's still a pretty damn good player and you could put him right in there with the guys we're talking about..RG3, Wilson, Kap...Can anyone name his wr's outside of 50 year old Steve Smith?

Cam still has a ways to go when it comes to his leadership/maturity. Smith is still very good too.