Robert Griffin III ready to turn career around with Redskins in 2015

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Then I wasn't clear in my post. I meant I think he can play well in any of those offenses right now. Each of those offenses is already more catered to what he does well then Jay's offense last year.

I would respectfully disagree. RGIII’s success came from an offense specifically designed to cut down his choices and allowed him to rely on his athleticism. To be clear, it’s not that I think RGIII is a Tebow, Carter or any of the other QB’s you mention. He clearly has some skills and when forced into a traditional role has performed as an average starter. As others noted, he has some downfield accuracy and arm strength that simply didn’t exist for Crouch or Pryor. Add that to his (formerly) freakish speed and he is not the dime-a-dozen college QB you think I am describing.

I agree with That Guy’s take that RGIII simply lacks pocket awareness on an instinctual level. Can I prove it with stats? No. Can I infer from watching? Yes. Other things I can infer: he holds the ball too long; he doesn’t feel the rush well; he doesn’t step up to avoid the rush; and, as TG said, once he does feel the pressure, the eyes are no longer looking downfield.

2012 was not entirely a fluke, but, as we have seen, it was also not the norm. The offense that worked for him has not worked as a base offense for anyone else since then. While still used, the pistol and read-option as done by RGIII/Shanahan is more than a gimmick but less than a solid base from which to run an offense. While RGIII might be an average QB in some of the offenses you mention, and based on his performance over the past two years, I would suggest he is – at best – an average to below average QB even in “offenses that have spread and zone-read elements.”

To be clear, I like RGIII and am very hopeful that he succeeds here. I believe that, right now, he is a very limited QB with exceptional athleticism, arm strength and, potentially, downfield accuracy. Some of his limitations may be overcome if he can accept coaching. Not sure if others can.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I would respectfully disagree. RGIII’s success came from an offense specifically designed to cut down his choices and allowed him to rely on his athleticism. To be clear, it’s not that I think RGIII is a Tebow, Carter or any of the other QB’s you mention. He clearly has some skills and when forced into a traditional role has performed as an average starter. As others noted, he has some downfield accuracy and arm strength that simply didn’t exist for Crouch or Pryor. Add that to his (formerly) freakish speed and he is not the dime-a-dozen college QB you think I am describing.

I agree with That Guy’s take that RGIII simply lacks pocket awareness on an instinctual level. Can I prove it with stats? No. Can I infer from watching? Yes. Other things I can infer: he holds the ball too long; he doesn’t feel the rush well; he doesn’t step up to avoid the rush; and, as TG said, once he does feel the pressure, the eyes are no longer looking downfield.

2012 was not entirely a fluke, but, as we have seen, it was also not the norm. The offense that worked for him has not worked as a base offense for anyone else since then. While still used, the pistol and read-option as done by RGIII/Shanahan is more than a gimmick but less than a solid base from which to run an offense. While RGIII might be an average QB in some of the offenses you mention, and based on his performance over the past two years, I would suggest he is – at best – an average to below average QB even in “offenses that have spread and zone-read elements.”

To be clear, I like RGIII and am very hopeful that he succeeds here. I believe that, right now, he is a very limited QB with exceptional athleticism, arm strength and, potentially, downfield accuracy. Some of his limitations may be overcome if he can accept coaching. Not sure if others can.

Agree with everything in this post,especially the highlighted part.That goes back to college,most if not all the scouting reports on RG3 saw problems with his pocket awareness.Unfortunately I dont think its something he can learn,its just instinct and you feel it.When have you ever seen Griff feel the blindside rusher coming at him and spin out of it or move out of the way?I would say never,Romo probably does it once or more a game,its just having a feel and Griff doesnt have it.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

Agree with everything in this post,especially the highlighted part.That goes back to college,most if not all the scouting reports on RG3 saw problems with his pocket awareness.Unfortunately I dont think its something he can learn,its just instinct and you feel it.When have you ever seen Griff feel the blindside rusher coming at him and spin out of it or move out of the way?I would say never,Romo probably does it once or more a game,its just having a feel and Griff doesnt have it.

Exactly. His first instinct is to pull the ball down and run, or to back peddle. Not sure they can coach that out of him and we won't really be able to tell if he's improved until he has a real pass rush coming at him.

Brady, who's as slow as a turtle is probably better than anyone at it..feeling the rush and making a small step or two to buy more time. Romo is also really good at it as well.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by htownskinfan

Agree with everything in this post,especially the highlighted part.That goes back to college,most if not all the scouting reports on RG3 saw problems with his pocket awareness.Unfortunately I dont think its something he can learn,its just instinct and you feel it.When have you ever seen Griff feel the blindside rusher coming at him and spin out of it or move out of the way?I would say never,Romo probably does it once or more a game,its just having a feel and Griff doesnt have it.

I also think he lacks pocket awareness. And what a crying shame that is because if he felt the rush better he could use his athleticism and speed to turn broken plays into big plays for his team. When he was drafted, I thought he would be amazing as a scrambler.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

...2012 was not entirely a fluke, but, as we have seen, it was also not the norm. The offense that worked for him has not worked as a base offense for anyone else since then. While still used, the pistol and read-option as done by RGIII/Shanahan is more than a gimmick but less than a solid base from which to run an offense. While RGIII might be an average QB in some of the offenses you mention, and based on his performance over the past two years, I would suggest he is – at best – an average to below average QB even in “offenses that have spread and zone-read elements.”

Well I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I don't think a QB can have the success Griffin had as a rookie then suddenly forget how to play the position. I think Griffin plugged in to any of the offense I mentioned before would be an above average or better QB. But that isn't the type of offense Jay has run in the past.

To be clear, I like RGIII and am very hopeful that he succeeds here. I believe that, right now, he is a very limited QB with exceptional athleticism, arm strength and, potentially, downfield accuracy. Some of his limitations may be overcome if he can accept coaching. Not sure if others can.

I believe Griffin remains one of the most talented QBs in the NFL. I think most of his issues can be cured with coaching. However, I am not very hopeful that Griffin succeeds here because I think Griffin is a bad fit for Jay and the offense Jay wants to run. I hope I am wrong, but imho the evidence points to an unhappy ending.

[KI Skins Fan]

Rich Tandler wrote this about RGIII's first day of Training Camp: "On Robert Griffin’s first pass he dropped back, hesitated a half beat, and threw sidearm and off target."

If Tandler was trying to make me nervous, it worked.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

Rich Tandler wrote this about RGIII's first day of Training Camp: "On Robert Griffin’s first pass he dropped back, hesitated a half beat, and threw sidearm and off target."

If Tandler was trying to make me nervous, it worked.

If you ask which am I more excited about, RG3 as our QB this year or all the excellent pro style QBs coming out of college into the draft this year....its clearly the latter.

FYI, im gonna be extremely tough on RG3 this year, he has zero excuses...health, system, oline, etc. I will also have a low tolerance for RG3 apologists.

I have a funny feeling this ends bad.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

If you ask which am I more excited about, RG3 as our QB this year or all the excellent pro style QBs coming out of college into the draft this year....its clearly the latter.

FYI, im gonna be extremely tough on RG3 this year, he has zero excuses...health, system, oline, etc. I will also have a low tolerance for RG3 apologists.

I have a funny feeling this ends bad.

If there's any left, I think they're all hiding in the woodworks. It hurts me to say this, but it's time for him to put up or shut up. If he can't do it this year he will see the 2016 season in another uniform.

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by mooby;1115548[B

]If there's any left, I think they're all hiding in the woodworks.[/B] It hurts me to say this, but it's time for him to put up or shut up. If he can't do it this year he will see the 2016 season in another uniform.

^ Look one post up from yours.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

^ Look one post up from yours.

Give me a minute, let me get this foot out of my mouth. As I should've said, even the few remaining fans he has will acknowledge he doesn't have many opportunities left.

With that being said, I am happy to hear the good reports coming out of camp.

[Meks]

His health is everything. If he physically feels shaky he loses his mental capacity as well as has been evident. His health is most important imo

[30gut]

Originally Posted by That Guy

...once he starts to scramble (not boot or roll out, but scramble), the play is already over, he pulls his eyes off the field and the ball is basically never going to go farther than 8 yards at that point. that's something wilson or rodger etc (ie, good QBs) don't do. his instincts are just bad there (pretty consistently too). he also has shown very little skill in predicting/sensing the rush, which compounds the problem by causing him to take off too early.

Hey, to each there own. If you honesty can't recall Griffin making plays downfield while scrambling I don't know what to tell you other then I disagree. Heck, even last year the play he was injured on against the Jags was a scramble play where he threw to DeSean.

I think Griffin's poor play last year has colored people memory of Griffin's level of play prior. The whole 'sensing the rush' narrative is overblown in my view. Does Griffin need to improve in this area? Yes. Is Griffin ever going to be like Romo,one of the leagues best houdini QBs? No. Would you have said Griffin had these problems sensing the rush in his rookie season?

that's really the issue that's holding him back the most. (he can be inconsistent reading D's etc, but that's not as hard to fix as bad instincts, which are REALLY hard to change). If he gets amazing protection, that hides it, and maybe allows him time to try and get it fixed, but the odds are generally against it.

I think Griffin's issue are reversed. I think Griffin issues with pocket presence are directly a result of lack of understanding with the play concepts. To me Griffin's problem last year are the growing pains of a QB learning to play in a rhythm WCO QB. Griffin faced a monumental transition and the difficulty of his transition were compounded by not having a QB coach; playing in an offense that didn't play to his strengths; and a HC that was impatient with having to teaching/grooming Griffin.

I'm all for giving him another shot, I'd much rather be wrong and have him killing teams left and right, it's just hard to see that happening after seeing basically no progress the last two years.

I agree its hard to see Griffin succeed here but for different reasons. I think Griffin's success is much more linked to Jay's ability/willingness to adapt his scheme and attitude towards Griffin. Personally I think we should have traded Griffin before the season began to get whatever value we could because I don't think Jay believes in him and ultimately I don't see how a QB can succeed without actually belief/support in their QB.

[htownskinfan]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Hey, to each there own. If you honesty can't recall Griffin making plays downfield while scrambling I don't know what to tell you other then I disagree. Heck, even last year the play he was injured on against the Jags was a scramble play where he threw to DeSean.

I think Griffin's poor play last year has colored people memory of Griffin's level of play prior. The whole 'sensing the rush' narrative is overblown in my view. Does Griffin need to improve in this area? Yes. Is Griffin ever going to be like Romo,one of the leagues best houdini QBs? No. Would you have said Griffin had these problems sensing the rush in his rookie season?

I think Griffin's issue are reversed. I think Griffin issues with pocket presence are directly a result of lack of understanding with the play concepts. To me Griffin's problem last year are the growing pains of a QB learning to play in a rhythm WCO QB. Griffin faced a monumental transition and the difficulty of his transition were compounded by not having a QB coach; playing in an offense that didn't play to his strengths; and a HC that was impatient with having to teaching/grooming Griffin.

I agree its hard to see Griffin succeed here but for different reasons. I think Griffin's success is much more linked to Jay's ability/willingness to adapt his scheme and attitude towards Griffin. Personally I think we should have traded Griffin before the season began to get whatever value we could because I don't think Jay believes in him and ultimately I don't see how a QB can succeed without actually belief/support in their QB.

Not just last yrs poor play,its been 2 yrs now.And no you wouldnt say that about Griff his rookie year because with that gimmick offense it rarely came into play.What Griff did his rookie yr should be thrown out the window,he's not that guy anymore since the knee blewout and he's not running an offense that can hide those flaws.

I dont think we should have traded him because there was no value there,but you have a good point about the coach believing in him.I"m all for giving him 1 more chance,but if he shows the same tendencies to take off running and not throwing the ball then I would not hesitate to pull him and stick in Cousins.I wouldnt give him more than 2 games to show he's improved,unless of course we win those 2 games.Winning changes everything,but if those 2 games are losses and Griff looks the same as the past 2 yrs I would yank him.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Hey, to each there own. If you honesty can't recall Griffin making plays downfield while scrambling I don't know what to tell you other then I disagree. Heck, even last year the play he was injured on against the Jags was a scramble play where he threw to DeSean.

you keep twisting posts into strawmen. no one's saying he's NEVER done anything good scrambling, just that he makes more bad plays then he should (especially the last 2 years post injury). he's obviously talented, just not consistent enough to be a reliable starter right now (the type that you're not looking to upgrade). It's definitely possible for him to turn it around, I just don't think it's the likely scenario.

and i really don't buy that his problems are jay's fault for not believing in him. that just feels like an excuse. He's been around the NFL long enough, it's time to put up or shut up.

[SFREDSKIN]

Robert Griffin III sharp during Washington Redskins practice - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN