Ramsey/Brunell: a closer look

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by illdefined

yeah Ramsey waited way too long when he got clotheslined.??

I can't fault him for that one. You're right. Brunell would have gotten sacked there too and may have fumbled as well.

But the other one, where Ramsey just sat there and sat there and sat there until the Bears sacked him and forced the fumble, that's all Ramsey's fault. Lucky for him Jansen and Rabach jumped on it, but had the ball bounced another way it could have been Bears ball.

[Sociofan]

Originally Posted by That Guy

duante fumbles all the time, so does vick... you're right about the turnovers though, we don't tolerate them... unless it brunell making them. he had bad fumbles last year.

And how many Super Bowls or even NFC championships do they have between them?

Turnovers not only kill drives, they kill morale which can cost a game or even a season. You spend too much time just wondering "when" the next one will happen.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by illdefined

the point is, Ramsey was clearly the better option last year, and Gibbs didn't take it. he saw something in Brunell too, he didn't turn any corner, but he stayed with him and it killed our season. that proved he was fallible, and is the only reason we're questioning him now. it's not emotion, it's *recent memory*.

10 games was too way too long last year but 19 minutes??

Do you really think his decision was based soley on the Chicago game?

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Redskins_P

I'm gonna keep this short and simple. This is how I feel about the whole Brunell/Ramsey situation. I know most of you won't agree, but hey this is why we're here to discuss the Skins.

Ramsey still isn't comfortable in the pocket. He still makes rookie mistakes. Granted he can get the ball downfield, but theres a risk with turning the ball over everytime he throws it. He still can't read defenses. At least Brunell will make smart decisions....and thats all you can ask for. We don't need Peyton Manning or Brett Favre or Tom Brady. We just need someone to help the offense move the ball. We have a solid o-line and a great running game. The defense as we all know....will do its job.

So I agree with Coach Gibbs on this one. Hats off to him for having the balls to doing it so quickly. I think he just got tired of all the turnovers.

That's why I've been trying to say all along. Let's make some room here on the Brunell Bandwagon for Redskins_P

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

I can't fault him for that one. You're right. Brunell would have gotten sacked there too and may have fumbled as well.

But the other one, where Ramsey just sat there and sat there and sat there until the Bears sacked him and forced the fumble, that's all Ramsey's fault. Lucky for him Jansen and Rabach jumped on it, but had the ball bounced another way it could have been Bears ball.

so that one chance was all he deserved after last season? 7 minutes to catch his regular season rhythm? thats just not rational.

everyone has to agree this is just based on Gibbs' instinct at this point. the same instinct that was proven wrong last year. it's early in his first couple years of his comeback, he was wrong last season, he could be wrong again.

[illdefined]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Do you really think his decision was based soley on the Chicago game?

no i don't. but i think 16 regular season games should say an infinitely lot more about two quarterbacks than 8 very limited circumstance preseason games.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Sociofan

And how many Super Bowls or even NFC championships do they have between them?

Turnovers not only kill drives, they kill morale which can cost a game or even a season. You spend too much time just wondering "when" the next one will happen.

do you expect brunell to lead us to a championship game? cause i don't.

[SUNRA]

Originally Posted by Joe Knows...

One more piont I forgot to make... Joe Theisman and other former Gibbs players are always talking on TV about how Gibbs hates turn overs. And that if a player can't protect the football then Coach Gibbs isn't going to tolerate it and will not be afraid to bench him.

Looks like Theisman was telling the truth.

That is the point period. I think a lot of fans who are for Ramsey really aren't taking Gibbs seriously because when he says no turnovers there are no exceptions. Antonio Brown will be replaced sooner than later if he turns the ball over on the punt return. Turnovers are gifts from our team to another team that allows them to stay in the game and erase the great job our defense is doing. Brunell is the starter, period.

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Hahahahaha... I like your turnover description.

[e16bball]

I actually can't believe that PRESEASON games are being cited as more relevant than last year's regular season games. Should the Steelers have benched Roethlisberger after this preseason, and gone with Tommy Maddox? After all, Roethlisberger had about a 20 passer rating in the preseason, and turned the ball over quite often. (NOTE: I can't find the actual numbers for either of those players in the preseason, probably because most outlets for that sort of information realize that the PRESEASON DOESN'T MATTER). Sure Ben outplayed Maddox last season, but, hey, this preseason they've both looked like different men. And sure, Maddox was only playing bumbling idiots out there in the preseason, and Ben was playing first string Ds, but Maddox's stats are better and frankly he LOOKED better.

My point is, you cannot seriously judge a player on his preseason performance, unless there is no prior basis for comparison (a rookie, or a newly signed FA perhaps). And with Brunell and Ramsey, we HAVE A BASIS FOR COMPARISON. It's called last season. Brunell was horrible, Ramsey was better. Sure, hamstring this and arm strength that, but why take a chance on a guy who has proved nothing in a Redskins uniform other than he cannot play football anymore. Hoping the frog that is Brunell to turn into a prince is literally like wishing for a fairy tale. At least Ramsey has demonstrated he can win ballgames against teams that come close to matching our talent level. Remember the Vikings game? That was a playoff team that we simply outplayed with Ramsey at the helm. He turned the ball over a few times, but overcame that by playing like a real QB. People act like a turnover is the end of the world. It sucks, yes, but 2 turnovers in a game is better than 8 3-and-outs. Our defense is strong enough to help us withstand turnovers, and we need some aggressiveness on our offense, some risk-taking. What's the point in having speedsters like Moss and Patten if you are just going to check down every play for fear of making a turnover?

A starter losing his job based on 6 quarters of preseason play, no matter how shaky, is simply ludicrous. Patrick's play in the preseason is NOT a sufficient reason for him losing the job in this day and age, or else numerous other QBs would have been benched as well. The fact of the matter is, Gibbs feels more "comfortable" with Brunell in there. However, I, in my admittedly limited knowledge of football, feel that this is "ill-advised." If you're comfortable going through a season where we beat Chicago, San Francisco, Arizona, the Giants once, and possibly the Raiders, then so be it. Brunell simply doesn't give us a chance to beat teams of a similar caliber. The offense is far too stagnant, and we'll never put enough points on the board to outscore teams with a decent offense. Sounds kinda like 2004, doesn't it? This move to Brunell might as well come with a time machine.

[e16bball]

Actually, I just found those stats on Roethlisberger and Maddox.

Ben's Passer Rating = 32.5

Maddox's Passer Rating = 59.5

Batch's Passer Rating = 74.0

What a ridiculous organization, releasing the player who quite obviously played the BEST during a meaningful preseason. Sure, he's proven that he sucks in the regular season, but this is a new year!

[MTK]

Let's stop comparing Ramsey to the likes of Favre, Manning, Vick and now Rothlisberger.

The preseason meant nothing for Rothlisberger. He wasn't trying to lock down a starting job. Why? There are 15 reason why, those are the # of wins he recorded as a rookie last year. He's proved himself in the eyes of the Steelers.

If anyone really believes the preseason wasn't important for Ramsey you're fooling yourself.

It was his formal audition for the job. All he had to do to avoid all this was play well and show he was the right guy for the job. He didn't do it, simple as that.

[illdefined]

following that logic why don't Brunell's # of losses count against him? or Ramsey's wins?

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Let's stop comparing Ramsey to the likes of Favre, Manning, Vick and now Rothlisberger.

The preseason meant nothing for Rothlisberger. He wasn't trying to lock down a starting job. Why? There are 15 reason why, those are the # of wins he recorded as a rookie last year. He's proved himself in the eyes of the Steelers.

If anyone really believes the preseason wasn't important for Ramsey you're fooling yourself.

It was his formal audition for the job. All he had to do to avoid all this was play well and show he was the right guy for the job. He didn't do it, simple as that.

yaeh, he auditioned by not running the actual offense and not having the best players (cooley/portis) being used... that's definately makes it fair to pull him after 19 minutes.

[mooby]

lol i like that turnover description, and besides, if it wasn't for antonio brown's fumble, we would've shut them out. if we play mistake free, turnover free, football, on both the offense and the special teams i think we'll win. also, we need to make sure we don't get defensive pass interference, i remember a couple games last year, specifically the eagles, where they threw the deep ball and pi was called on shawn springs at our 1 yard line. they scored a touchdown on the next play.