Obama Care

mlmpetert · 03-14-2012, 01:21 PM

If people were upset with the fed gov forcing religious institutions to provide birth control to their employees, i wonder if anyone will be upset that all of us will be forced to pay $1 per month for abortions?

“To comply with the accounting requirement, plans will collect a $1 abortion surcharge from each premium payer,” the pro-life source informed LifeNews. “The enrollee will make two payments, $1 per month for abortion and another payment for the rest of the services covered. As described in the rule, the surcharge can only be disclosed to the enrollee at the time of enrollment. Furthermore, insurance plans may only advertise the total cost of the premiums without disclosing that enrollees will be charged a $1 per month fee to pay directly subsidize abortions.”

$1 Abortions in Obamacare - Obamacare - Fox Nation

Crazy non-progressives with their backward values. They are so intolerant!!! Why should someone not have to provide birth control or abortions for others, just because it goes against their religous beliefs!? After all this is America!!! The absurdity!

RedskinRat · 03-14-2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

“To comply with the accounting requirement, plans will collect a $1 abortion surcharge from each premium payer,” the pro-life source informed LifeNews.

Two sources I'd take with a grain of salt. Has anyone read the wording of the bill?

1) At least one plan in the public option must provide coverage for abortion services and at least one must not provide coverage;
2) FOR THE PLAN(S) THAT DO provide such coverage, the Secretary shall estimate the average actuarial cost of those services, in an amount not less than $1 per enrollee IN A PLAN THAT DOES PROVIDE SUCH COVERAGE.
3) The issuer of a PLAN THAT DOES PROVIDE SUCH COVERAGE shall segregate an amount equal to that estimate and shall keep it separate from funds received from the government.

Silly religious folk and their transparent scare tactics.

'Death Panel', anyone?

12thMan · 02-15-2012, 11:43 AM

Federal Health-Care Fraud Crackdown Saves US $4.1 billion | Alaska Dispatch

firstdown · 03-14-2012, 05:37 PM

How come free clinics charge for abortions?

firstdown · 03-15-2012, 12:37 PM

What's not cool? OH, just pay for the abortions and STFU.

RedskinRat · 03-15-2012, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

What's not cool? OH, just pay for the abortions and STFU.

Calling women 'sluts' because they choose an abortion or wanting to watch the process.

mlmpetert · 03-15-2012, 02:32 PM

It looks like i may be spreading some mis-information, if so my bad not my intent at all. RedskinRat do you have any link to back up what you posted? It seems like what youre posting is from 2009, while what ive heard seems to be referencing a new/modified rule.

Agian i think i jumped the gun with my post but i dont really see anything out there that says the new news some are claiming of Dollar Menu abortion premiums paid for by all is false.

RedskinRat · 03-15-2012, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

It looks like i may be spreading some mis-information, if so my bad not my intent at all. RedskinRat do you have any link to back up what you posted? It seems like what youre posting is from 2009, while what ive heard seems to be referencing a new/modified rule.

Agian i think i jumped the gun with my post but i dont really see anything out there that says the new news some are claiming of Dollar Menu abortion premiums paid for by all is false.

www.kff.org/healthreform/upload/8061.pdf

:thumb:

RedskinRat · 03-27-2012, 04:16 PM

Supreme Court justices challenge Obama administration over health care law | The Ticket - Yahoo! News

Scalia and Roberts repeatedly warned that the case could result in Congress using the Commerce Clause to compel all kinds of behavior.

"If the government can do this, what is left? What else can it not do?" asked Scalia. "All bets are off," Roberts agreed.

firstdown · 03-28-2012, 11:39 AM

I think the states win but I still think we have a big problem with people who can afford health ins and choose not to purchase coverage. I think we just tell them that's fine but they can be refused medical treatment if they cannot pay up front.

RedskinRat · 03-28-2012, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firstdown

I think we just tell them that's fine but they can be refused medical treatment if they cannot pay up front.

Hippocratic oath?

firstdown · 03-29-2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedskinRat

Hippocratic oath?

What?

RedskinRat · 03-29-2012, 10:41 AM

I swear by Apollo the Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods, and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:
To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art – if they desire to learn it – without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken the oath according to medical law, but to no one else.

I will apply dietic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep myself holding such things shameful to be spoken about.
If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honoured with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.

or

I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.

I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.

I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.

I will not be ashamed to say "I know not", nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.

I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.

I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.

I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.

I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.

Ethical medicine.

Daseal · 04-04-2012, 11:59 AM

France best, U.S. worst in preventable death ranking | Reuters

US now 19th out of 19 industrialized nations in healthcare preventable deaths. Slipping 4 slots since the last study was conducted. France and Japan still dominating.

RedskinRat · 04-04-2012, 02:41 PM

Yeah, they've done this study before (Just before the last election, suspiciously enough) and the rebuttal I'll link to slaps it down nicely:

Are we really- 19th-out-of-19

Choosing Nonmedical Benchmarks
Cherry-Picking the Benchmarks
Using Questionable Benchmarks
Equating Low Spending with Efficiency
Using Questionable Measurements
Confusing "Access" with "Third-Party Insurance"
Ignoring Self-Insurance
Ignoring Assets
Applying the Commonwealth Criteria of "Underinsured" to the Medicare Population
Ignoring Rationing by Waiting
Misusing Statistics.

Tres bon!

03-14-2012, 01:21 PM	#1
mlmpetert Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Richmond Posts: 3,261	Re: Obama Care If people were upset with the fed gov forcing religious institutions to provide birth control to their employees, i wonder if anyone will be upset that all of us will be forced to pay $1 per month for abortions? “To comply with the accounting requirement, plans will collect a $1 abortion surcharge from each premium payer,” the pro-life source informed LifeNews. “The enrollee will make two payments, $1 per month for abortion and another payment for the rest of the services covered. As described in the rule, the surcharge can only be disclosed to the enrollee at the time of enrollment. Furthermore, insurance plans may only advertise the total cost of the premiums without disclosing that enrollees will be charged a $1 per month fee to pay directly subsidize abortions.” $1 Abortions in Obamacare - Obamacare - Fox Nation Crazy non-progressives with their backward values. They are so intolerant!!! Why should someone not have to provide birth control or abortions for others, just because it goes against their religous beliefs!? After all this is America!!! The absurdity! __________________ www.NRABannedGunsRaffle.org

02-15-2012, 11:43 AM	#3
12thMan MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: washington, D.C. Posts: 11,460	Re: Obama Care Federal Health-Care Fraud Crackdown Saves US $4.1 billion \| Alaska Dispatch

03-14-2012, 05:37 PM	#4
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 62 Posts: 15,817	Re: Obama Care How come free clinics charge for abortions?

03-15-2012, 12:37 PM	#5
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 62 Posts: 15,817	Re: Obama Care What's not cool? OH, just pay for the abortions and STFU.

03-15-2012, 02:32 PM	#7
mlmpetert Playmaker Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Richmond Posts: 3,261	Re: Obama Care It looks like i may be spreading some mis-information, if so my bad not my intent at all. RedskinRat do you have any link to back up what you posted? It seems like what youre posting is from 2009, while what ive heard seems to be referencing a new/modified rule. Agian i think i jumped the gun with my post but i dont really see anything out there that says the new news some are claiming of Dollar Menu abortion premiums paid for by all is false. __________________ www.NRABannedGunsRaffle.org

03-27-2012, 04:16 PM	#9
RedskinRat Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 8,700	Re: Obama Care Supreme Court justices challenge Obama administration over health care law \| The Ticket - Yahoo! News Scalia and Roberts repeatedly warned that the case could result in Congress using the Commerce Clause to compel all kinds of behavior. "If the government can do this, what is left? What else can it not do?" asked Scalia. "All bets are off," Roberts agreed.

03-28-2012, 11:39 AM	#10
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 62 Posts: 15,817	Re: Obama Care I think the states win but I still think we have a big problem with people who can afford health ins and choose not to purchase coverage. I think we just tell them that's fine but they can be refused medical treatment if they cannot pay up front.

03-29-2012, 10:41 AM	#13
RedskinRat Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 8,700	Re: Obama Care I swear by Apollo the Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods, and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfill according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant: To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art – if they desire to learn it – without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken the oath according to medical law, but to no one else. I will apply dietic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice. I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art. I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work. Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves. What I may see or hear in the course of treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep myself holding such things shameful to be spoken about. If I fulfill this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honoured with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot. or I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant: I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow. I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures [that] are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism. I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug. I will not be ashamed to say "I know not", nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery. I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given to me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God. I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick. I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure. I will remember that I remain a member of society with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm. If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, be respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help. Ethical medicine.

04-04-2012, 11:59 AM	#14
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 43 Posts: 8,341	Re: Obama Care France best, U.S. worst in preventable death ranking \| Reuters US now 19th out of 19 industrialized nations in healthcare preventable deaths. Slipping 4 slots since the last study was conducted. France and Japan still dominating. __________________ Best. Player. Available.

04-04-2012, 02:41 PM	#15
RedskinRat Franchise Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: I'm in LA, trick! Posts: 8,700	Re: Obama Care Yeah, they've done this study before (Just before the last election, suspiciously enough) and the rebuttal I'll link to slaps it down nicely: Are we really- 19th-out-of-19 Choosing Nonmedical Benchmarks Cherry-Picking the Benchmarks Using Questionable Benchmarks Equating Low Spending with Efficiency Using Questionable Measurements Confusing "Access" with "Third-Party Insurance" Ignoring Self-Insurance Ignoring Assets Applying the Commonwealth Criteria of "Underinsured" to the Medicare Population Ignoring Rationing by Waiting Misusing Statistics. Tres bon!

Obama Care

Debating with the enemy