Obama Care

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by budw38

Why must you always use logic , and facts ???

So you call the Iraq War logic?

[saden1]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

What's sort of perplexing to me is that their new strategy is: Repeal, Reform, and Replace. In other words, they are going to propose an entirely new bill to replace the one that just passed. Huh?

How they plan on jumping from a meager 3 million being covered to 32 million without making some wholesale changes to the current system is beyond me.

They are beyond absurd. How do they plan on getting it through the senate and signed by the president is beyond me. These silly people are just that, silly and not to be taken seriously.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by budw38

Why must you always use logic , and facts ???

Yeah i know its not emotional enough to make a good decision on!

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Although I find it funny that you bring up the Iraq War (a war started under false pretenses like WMDs and took away from going to Afghanistan and get Bin Laden) and the Patriot Act (a legislation that made it OK to violate people's civil liberties for the sake of security), yet these things were 10 times worst than passing Health Care reform.

I didn't bring up the Iraq War, Matty did and I was responding to him.

To your points: on Iraq, hindsight is 20/20. The Iraq War resolution was bi-partisan and the intel that was used as a basis to move forward with the war came from a Clinton hold-over. Bush's biggest mistake was keeping any Clintonites around.

Please give me one example of the Patriot Act being used to falsely imprison or prosecute an American citizen.

Protecting U.S. citizens from terrorist attack is far more important than this particular health reform bill.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I didn't bring up the Iraq War, Matty did and I was responding to him.

To your points: on Iraq, hindsight is 20/20. The Iraq War resolution was bi-partisan and the intel that was used as a basis to move forward with the war came from a Clinton hold-over. Bush's biggest mistake was keeping any Clintonites around.

Please give me one example of the Patriot Act being used to falsely imprison or prosecute an American citizen.

Protecting U.S. citizens from terrorist attack is far more important than this particular health reform bill.

I don't have as radical negative opinion of the Patriot Act as some people on the left do. My point is that some people act like this Health Care reform is the worst thing in the world and that the world itself is going to end because of it. To me, making the decision to go to war with Iraq with questionable purposes, without an exit strategy, and without an end, is far worst than this Health Care bill.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

So you call the Iraq War logic?

I did not specify the war . The truth is , for the 10 years prior to the war ,the Clinton Admin. bombed Iraq , drafted a war act < 97 I think > and used the WMD/ Nuke threat . Al Gore stated throughout the 90's that Iraq had WMD's and ties to terror groups < all on youtube > . The FBI and CIA directors < Clintons > were on the WMD reports . France/Germany and Russia stated in the Security Council meetings they believed Iraq had WMD's.... hell Dems were stating that Rumsfeld supplied WMD's to Iraq . Iraq did have a WMD program , how far it was advanced , nobody knows , how much of a threat was Iraq to us in 2001 , don't know that either . As far as the Patriot Act .... every single American living between south NJ through Boston .... are very , very .... very lucky we had a patriot act ! Had we not had some bums like Gorelick American Thinker: Mistress of Disaster: Jamie Gorelick in our Gov't .... maybe we would have been better off to begin with .

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

To me, making the decision to go to war with Iraq with questionable purposes, without an exit strategy, and without an end, is far worst than this Health Care bill.

In terms of immediate loss of U.S. life the Iraq War decision is certainly worse. However how many lives did we save in the process, be they U.S., Iraqi, or possibly other nations that could've been a victim of terrorism sponsored or funded by Saddam or people murdered directly by Saddam and his regime. The Kurds are certainly glad we overthrew Saddam.

In terms of money, this health care bill is likely to be far worse than expenditures on the Iraq War in overall burden to the National Debt.

I agree with you that the country is certainly not going into a revolution or the world stop spinning on it's axis because of this law. However, with this new law we will see a further erosion in personal freedoms/personal choice, further intrusion into the private secor by the federal government, further expansion of the federal government's power over the states, increased taxes and an increase in the National Debt. Providing health coverage for the uninsured, working through the pre-existing conditions issues, and allowing more competition for health coverage could've been done in a different way.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by budw38

I did not specify the war . The truth is , for the 10 years prior to the war ,the Clinton Admin. bombed Iraq , drafted a war act < 97 I think > and used the WMD/ Nuke threat . Al Gore stated throughout the 90's that Iraq had WMD's and ties to terror groups < all on youtube > . The FBI and CIA directors < Clintons > were on the WMD reports . France/Germany and Russia stated in the Security Council meetings they believed Iraq had WMD's.... hell Dems were stating that Rumsfeld supplied WMD's to Iraq . Iraq did have a WMD program , how far it was advanced , nobody knows , how much of a threat was Iraq to us in 2001 , don't know that either . As far as the Patriot Act .... every single American living between south NJ through Boston .... are very , very .... very lucky we had a patriot act ! Had we not had some bums like Gorelick American Thinker: Mistress of Disaster: Jamie Gorelick in our Gov't .... maybe we would have been better off to begin with .

Good points, all.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Good points, all.

Thank you . I do not like war , I would guess 95 % of Americans would love to never see a war . Of course , had Saddam allowed the U.N. WI team into Iraq in early 2002 , this war would have never happened ? Maybe one day we have fewer bums like Hitler/Stalin/Castro/Hugo and maybe more nations work to keep any dictator from ruling over others . When does our NFL season start

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by budw38

Thank you . I do not like war , I would guess 95 % of Americans would love to never see a war . Of course , had Saddam allowed the U.N. WI team into Iraq in early 2002 , this war would have never happened ? Maybe one day we have fewer bums like Hitler/Stalin/Castro/Hugo and maybe more nations work to keep any dictator from ruling over others . When does our NFL season start

Our draft just got finished.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Our draft just got finished.

Yes it did , next up ..... to finish the giants/eagles and cowturds !!!

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

In terms of immediate loss of U.S. life the Iraq War decision is certainly worse. However how many lives did we save in the process, be they U.S., Iraqi, or possibly other nations that could've been a victim of terrorism sponsored or funded by Saddam or people murdered directly by Saddam and his regime. The Kurds are certainly glad we overthrew Saddam.

In terms of money, this health care bill is likely to be far worse than expenditures on the Iraq War in overall burden to the National Debt.

I agree with you that the country is certainly not going into a revolution or the world stop spinning on it's axis because of this law. However, with this new law we will see a further erosion in personal freedoms/personal choice, further intrusion into the private secor by the federal government, further expansion of the federal government's power over the states, increased taxes and an increase in the National Debt. Providing health coverage for the uninsured, working through the pre-existing conditions issues, and allowing more competition for health coverage could've been done in a different way.

Would you agree that Barack Obama won the presidency chiefly because of voter discontent over the war? There were a number of factors that led to his victory, no doubt. But in my mind, at the top of the list was Iraq. Polls were running heavily against the war by the 2008 election -- and the Republican response? Nominate a man who suggested we might be there "a hundred" more years.

As defiant as conservatives accuse the democrats of being with regard to health care, the GOP was just as defiant in the face of public opinion about the war in Iraq.

Assuming everything comes up roses in Iraq -- and that's an awfully big "if" -- would it be worth it if the price we had to pay was a Marxist in the White House who paved the way for nationalized health care?

[Beemnseven]

Remember people, according to Democrats like Representative Dingle, it's all about "control."

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Would you agree that Barack Obama won the presidency chiefly because of voter discontent over the war? There were a number of factors that led to his victory, no doubt. But in my mind, at the top of the list was Iraq. Polls were running heavily against the war by the 2008 election -- and the Republican response? Nominate a man who suggested we might be there "a hundred" more years.

As defiant as conservatives accuse the democrats of being with regard to health care, the GOP was just as defiant in the face of public opinion about the war in Iraq.

Assuming everything comes up roses in Iraq -- and that's an awfully big "if" -- would it be worth it if the price we had to pay was a Marxist in the White House who paved the way for nationalized health care?

Where is it written in our Constitution that " we " can not buy health Insurance ? Do any of our states prohibit individuals from buying health ins. ? Most , if not all of the people on this site have stated that they were for reform , just would have liked a smaller , more direct bill . I think much of the concern is that the HC Bill could lead to higher debt , like we have in SS & MC . I think all of us want our elected to make good sound policy on everything from education , health , transportation , safe water , food ect. Hope this HC bill helps everyone that NEEDS help , not reward many who care nothing about / self/counrty ect. Nothing is for free and sometimes , we get what we pay for .

[Daseal]

We should have just copied France. Hands down the best healthcare in the world. People love to point to Canada for socialized medicine. But in a poll about healthcare, a majority of the top 30 countries (which the US was not a part of ranked 37th) have 'socialist' healthcare. Sorry folks, reform needed, and still needs, to happen. We need to be smarter about hospitals. Stop having every hospital getting each and every new gadget. You may have to travel a bit more to get the exact care, but the cost savings will be worth it if hospitals regionalise.

Here's a great article about the new bill, that highlights both the positive and negative. One thing to keep in mind, preventative care is much cheaper than waiting for someone to need hospitalization. I have a feeling that we'll see a lot more of that with this bill.

Health Care Reform: Tax Hikes on the Way - Kiplinger