Maybe Vinny Cerrato isn't the Anti-Christ

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

True but I'd lay that at Snyder's feet, not Gibbs.

Well it's easy to blame Snyder, but if you remember when Gibbs was hired he and Snyder were interviewed and the statement was made that all decisions were Gibbs responsibility, Gibbs has final say on all moves in every aspect of this team, all Snyder does is fit the bill for Gibbs. This is not a dictatorship like Steinbrenner, Snyder is probably the only one in the organization who is succeeding at his job and that's paying people. The only failure he may be responsible for is allowing Gibbs to maintain total control, but not even I will fault him for that, regardless of how bad Gibbs has been he's earned the right to fail, and although when it comes to personel he's lost, I understand the loyalty there, as well as with all the fans, but the fact still remains when it comes to personel he just doesn't get it.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Here's a question Sheriff: What do you think Vinny's responsibilities are?

I really don't know precisely what his duties are and that is the whole point. People who have no clue who is to blame for our problems blame Vinny because he is convenient scapegoat. If people need someone to blame, I guess Vinny is a convenient and easy target.

The two biggest critcisms of the Redskins FO that I hear are "We overpay players" and "We don't value the draft and we trade too many picks away." Problem is, salary structures and trading draft picks are definately not in Vinny's area of responsibility.

Vinny could be to blame for a lot. But until someone explains to me how Vinny has made X, Y, and Z bad decisions and can verify that such decisions were actualy his (as opposed to wildly speculating), I will have no clue how people can honestly lay blame for our woes at Vinny's feet.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by offiss

Well it's easy to blame Snyder, but if you remember when Gibbs was hired he and Snyder were interviewed and the statement was made that all decisions were Gibbs responsibility, Gibbs has final say on all moves in every aspect of this team, all Snyder does is fit the bill for Gibbs. This is not a dictatorship like Steinbrenner, Snyder is probably the only one in the organization who is succeeding at his job and that's paying people. The only failure he may be responsible for is allowing Gibbs to maintain total control, but not even I will fault him for that, regardless of how bad Gibbs has been he's earned the right to fail, and although when it comes to personel he's lost, I understand the loyalty there, as well as with all the fans, but the fact still remains when it comes to personel he just doesn't get it.

Gibbs doesn't write the checks or structure the contracts.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Gibbs doesn't write the checks or structure the contracts.

That's my point all Snyder does is what he has to to bring in the players Gibbs want's, and the fact that he over pay's a lot of these players shows his commitment to Gibbs and what he want's. He could easily say the guy want's to much money to come here but he doesn't, he shells out what he has to to see that Gibbs get's everything he believes he needs to win. I believe that to be the case, when it comes to money Snyder is no dummy, I am sure he knows he's shelling out more than he should in a lot of instances, but he believes in Gibbs and honors his commitment from the onset with him, unfortunatly Gibbs hasen't been able to utilize his financial support, and I believe part of that reason is Gibbs has been in a hurry to win since he's arrived and tried to shortcut the process of rebuilding with free agency, but that is just part of Gibbs flaws as a GM.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by offiss

That's my point all Snyder does is what he has to to bring in the players Gibbs want's, and the fact that he over pay's a lot of these players shows his commitment to Gibbs and what he want's. He could easily say the guy want's to much money to come here but he doesn't, he shells out what he has to to see that Gibbs get's everything he believes he needs to win. I believe that to be the case, when it comes to money Snyder is no dummy, I am sure he knows he's shelling out more than he should in a lot of instances, but he believes in Gibbs and honors his commitment from the onset with him, unfortunatly Gibbs hasen't been able to utilize his financial support, and I believe part of that reason is Gibbs has been in a hurry to win since he's arrived and tried to shortcut the process of rebuilding with free agency, but that is just part of Gibbs flaws as a GM.

I don't think you are going to get too many arguments about Gibbs the GM being not so hot to this point, but surely you've realized that he's learning from past mistakes.

I firmly believe that anyone can improve their decision-making skills regarding personel. Gibbs will learn faster than most GMs because he is not afraid to admit his mistakes.

If he stays at it, he will become one of the league's top GMs, but I get the feeling that he's going to step down after 2008.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't think you are going to get too many arguments about Gibbs the GM being not so hot to this point, but surely you've realized that he's learning from past mistakes.

I firmly believe that anyone can improve their decision-making skills regarding personel. Gibbs will learn faster than most GMs because he is not afraid to admit his mistakes.

If he stays at it, he will become one of the league's top GMs, but I get the feeling that he's going to step down after 2008.

Does he really learn from past mistakes?

Brunell was a big one and he's still on the team, I believe Gibbs has a very hard time swallowing his pride regardless of what he might say. He's an accomplished coach, not GM, which is what he really want's to be, it is a tough pill to swallow especially if your costing your employer 10's of millions of dollars, and that is exactly what's going on right now, Gibbs is spending mega bucks with Snyder fitting the bill. I have seen him do the same thing over and over again since the day he's arrived, overpay for mediocre talent, the fact that we haven't run amuck this year is we are not only capped out, but scared of another big name blunder, we don't know which way to turn when it comes to personel, and I see us some how, some way, screwing up this draft even with only 1 pick, stupid is as stupid does!

Kind of funny in a year when we have 1 legitamate pick we back off of free agency. I think people have the notion that drafting a D-lineman is going to cure all our ill's? Ain't happening! We have far to many holes, and no picks to fill them.

[dmek25]

the skins have one pick because of past dealings. they haven't traded future picks( so far) and have kept free agent signings to low key guys. it looks like someone is learning as you go. offiss, i don't know why you cant let this Marc Brunell thing go. i agree, it was a screw up. but thats old news. Brunell , to me, is an adequate back up. and doesn't make a ton of money. but as much as Gibbs was wrong about Brunell, you were about Ramsey. so lets get over it

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I really don't know precisely what his duties are and that is the whole point. People who have no clue who is to blame for our problems blame Vinny because he is convenient scapegoat. If people need someone to blame, I guess Vinny is a convenient and easy target.

The two biggest critcisms of the Redskins FO that I hear are "We overpay players" and "We don't value the draft and we trade too many picks away." Problem is, salary structures and trading draft picks are definately not in Vinny's area of responsibility.

Vinny could be to blame for a lot. But until someone explains to me how Vinny has made X, Y, and Z bad decisions and can verify that such decisions were actualy his (as opposed to wildly speculating), I will have no clue how people can honestly lay blame for our woes at Vinny's feet.

I see. So you don't know what his actual responsibilities are, yet you're certain he doesn't deserve any of the blame for the state of this franchise. And I'll bet you're not ready to lay the blame with Joe Gibbs, because, well ... that's just wrong. And all Dan Snyder does is sign the checks.

So there you go. Zero accountability. Everybody gets a pass. How convenient! Wish my job operated that way. Give a crap performance, put a crappy product on the field, and the responsible party is a mystery! A phantom if you will. And since the origin of that crappy product cannot be traced, we get the same old, same old.

It's a good thing other teams don't operate that way. The NFL would be in a sorry state if that were the case.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by offiss

I think people have the notion that drafting a D-lineman is going to cure all our ill's? Ain't happening! We have far to many holes, and no picks to fill them.

I think most people understand that our defense is woefully inadequate to the point that it couldn't possibly be fixed in one offseason. I've heard that over and over.

But you have to start somewhere. It's a cliche, but football is a game that's won in the trenches. "It all starts up front," they say. They are right. Our defensive line is old and decrepit. The two starting defensive tackles cannot get penetration, they get pushed around, and they can't stay healthy. We saw that all last year. Yet somehow they're going to turn over a new leaf and get us back on track. I think that's being naive.

No one says that all our problems will be solved with one draft pick no matter where the position is. Until just last season, this defensive line has been neglected in draft after draft. Not since 1997 has a high draft pick been used on the defensive front four. That's far too long.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

If you know anything about the man you wouldn't be questioning that at all.

All coaches say the right things that the media or fans want to hear, just like athletes. Fact is, Gibbs can lie, or bend the truth just like anyone else. I think he has proven that the last few years. If anyone thinks the guy is HONEST ABE your kidding yourself. Players who were CORE guys, will be with the team for years to come, blah blah blah, all seem to have disapeared. he is as guilty as anyone in this league blowing smoke up peoples asses as anyone.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

All coaches say the right things that the media or fans want to hear, just like athletes. Fact is, Gibbs can lie, or bend the truth just like anyone else. I think he has proven that the last few years. If anyone thinks the guy is HONEST ABE your kidding yourself. Players who were CORE guys, will be with the team for years to come, blah blah blah, all seem to have disapeared. he is as guilty as anyone in this league blowing smoke up peoples asses as anyone.

This is still a bussiness. Gibbs makes a big effort to try and keep core guys on the team. However two things can get in the way: (1) the Salary cap/budget and (2) the value of what a player thinks he is worth in comparison to what the team feels the player is worth. The Redksins are not going to sign a core player regardless of salary.
The guard that just signd with the Bills is a perfect example. That is another Archuleta type contract, the Redskins were smart not to match.. The Bills will end up cutting him in a few years once they realize his true value, just like what happened to Smoot in Minnesota.
Smoot was not worth that Minnesota contract. Archuleta was not worth his redskins contract. It s about being smart with the Salary cap and not having to renegotiate and back loading contracts because we are right up to the Salary cap.
Regardless if the player is a church going great Redskin. Bottom line is this is a bussiness. The NFL should get rid of the salary cap. It hurts the league, the fans and the team when a team can not afford to re-sign a core player because of the cap.

[AlvinWalton'sNeckBrace]

I'm not sure getting rid of the salary cap all together is a good idea. I'm not saying I have a better solution, but getting rid of the cap would bury teams like bills, packers, saints, and cards. Players have gotten too expensive to get rid of the cap now.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

All coaches say the right things that the media or fans want to hear, just like athletes. Fact is, Gibbs can lie, or bend the truth just like anyone else. I think he has proven that the last few years. If anyone thinks the guy is HONEST ABE your kidding yourself. Players who were CORE guys, will be with the team for years to come, blah blah blah, all seem to have disapeared. he is as guilty as anyone in this league blowing smoke up peoples asses as anyone.

That's not what the original discussion was about. The original discussion had to do with whether or not Gibbs is genuine when he sticks his neck out and is the first one to always take the blame when things are going wrong.

Of course he bends the truth or says what people want to hear regarding certain things like personnel decisions, but I have no doubt that when he says "blame me", he is 110% genuine and losing hurts him to the core.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I see. So you don't know what his actual responsibilities are, yet you're certain he doesn't deserve any of the blame for the state of this franchise. And I'll bet you're not ready to lay the blame with Joe Gibbs, because, well ... that's just wrong. And all Dan Snyder does is sign the checks.

No, I've repeatedly said that Vinny has probably made some good decisions and some bad ones. I just find it interesting that people who have no clue what the inner workings of the front office are somehow have the miraculous ability to blame Vinny for everything that goes wrong.

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

So there you go. Zero accountability. Everybody gets a pass. How convenient!

I don't know who is accountable for what, so I don't know how to lay blame at any particular individual's feet. I suppose if you want to randomly pick out a guy to be a scapegoat and target of all pent-up frustration with the team, Vinny is as good of a guy to blame as anyone.

[rvd420]

vinny c isnt the problem its that owner of ours who is like a kid in a candy store.buy something he doesnt need.AA is a good example.