Should Joe Gibbs be let go or retire?

[BrunellMVP?]

I want to give credit to the coaching staff for last nights game...I think they did a great job with the play calling (realized that running wasn't working and not crawling into a shell trying to keep the lead- having faith in collins) and time management (no issues). well done.

[SmootSmack]

Maybe the key to success is one day of practice each week.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Actually it's 1 playoff appearance.

1999.

Oh yeah, lost to the Bucs...

That's what I get for trusting that broadcast crew.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Buster

Oh yeah, lost to the Bucs...

That's what I get for trusting that broadcast crew.

I think they did say 1

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Buster

Turnovers and missed tackles/coverages on big plays are the coaches fault? Ok...if you say so.

seriously, the conservative play calling - playing for field goals, running and punting away only to have the defense to hold off a team to win a game.

my point is watching teams that win consistantly they execute their offense at the end of games, they dont just sit on the ball. what sums up our team and coach is "we dont play to win, we play not to lose!" that doesn't work in todays NFL with teams able to score quickly. as we have seen in some of our 4th quarter losses. I do believe in my post that i said players have to play and make plays, I understand that, but coaches have to be able to put the players in positions to make those plays, and put us in positions to win games. I dont think Joe has been able to that. If he had, we would not be going through the 3rd losing season of his 4th season. i just dont get why people think Joe is doing his job. I think it is because of his name and past success, it has to be, because he hasing done anything since returning. Spurrier coached the team to the same record he did last season. 5-11 is 5-11 it doesn't matter who is on the sideline.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

seriously, the conservative play calling - playing for field goals, running and punting away only to have the defense to hold off a team to win a game.

my point is watching teams that win consistantly they execute their offense at the end of games, they dont just sit on the ball. what sums up our team and coach is "we dont play to win, we play not to lose!" that doesn't work in todays NFL with teams able to score quickly. as we have seen in some of our 4th quarter losses. I do believe in my post that i said players have to play and make plays, I understand that, but coaches have to be able to put the players in positions to make those plays, and put us in positions to win games. I dont think Joe has been able to that. If he had, we would not be going through the 3rd losing season of his 4th season. i just dont get why people think Joe is doing his job. I think it is because of his name and past success, it has to be, because he hasing done anything since returning. Spurrier coached the team to the same record he did last season. 5-11 is 5-11 it doesn't matter who is on the sideline.

2005 didn't count?

[celts32]

neither!

[sandtrapjack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

With the way the injuries keep piling up and of course Taylor's death, I'm not sure if any coach could have done any better this year.

Sorry, but I am a member of the club that believes that the plague of nagging injuries can be attributed to Gibbs.

By taking on the "player friendly" coach approach last off-season and allowing players to do their own off-season conditioning without a mandatory monitored off-season training program, players were not in the best shape they could have been in when they reported for camp and the regular season.

None suffered "devastating" injuries, just those nagging groin, hammy's and sprains. In other words the types of injuries that are minimized exponentially when a player is in better shape. I.E. participates in a structured, monitored off-season program.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

Sorry, but I am a member of the club that believes that the plague of nagging injuries can be attributed to Gibbs.

By taking on the "player friendly" coach approach last off-season and allowing players to do their own off-season conditioning without a mandatory monitored off-season training program, players were not in the best shape they could have been in when they reported for camp and the regular season.

None suffered "devastating" injuries, just those nagging groin, hammy's and sprains. In other words the types of injuries that are minimized exponentially when a player is in better shape. I.E. participates in a structured, monitored off-season program.

None?

Guess you forget about Jansen getting his ankle snapped or last night with JC getting rolled up on. Or Rogers shredding his knee, or Thomas tearing a muscle. Not sure what conditioning was going to do for those guys.

[RiggoDrill]

Joe Gibbs became the coach of the Redskins just at the time that I was "discovering" the awesomeness of the NFL. He made me a Redskin fan, and the 4 SB appearances and 3 trophies cemented my unyielding loyalty to the team, no matter what the record may be.
I felt like a little kid on Christmas day when it was announced that he was returning to the sideline, visions of past glory came rushing to the forefront of my mind. As he did the first time around, he inherited a underperforming, disappointing team. I had every reason to believe that he would turn things around and get the franchise back to it's former level of success. 2004 was disappointing, but who really cares about that, it was his first year back and I wasn't really expecting all that much from the Skins. 2005 was great, running off 5 straight wins to make the post season and winning a playoff game gave me every confidence that the Redskins were "back." The offseason following that year reinforced my optimism, adding key players in the right places. I remember the talking heads on ESPN, particularly Mike Golic, praising the team's free agent moves and ranking their offense and defense in the top 5 during preseason speculation.
2006 and 2007 have been very disappointing and eye opening. Mismanagement of timeouts, indecision at crucial moments in games, underperformance by supposed "star" players, injuries coupled with poor play from backups, all have me shaking my head in frustration and wondering if the return of Joe Gibbs is really the best thing for this franchise.
It is to be expected, that as head coach and team president, with a 5 year contract, that Joe would build a solid foundation, improve the on-field production, and leave the organization in better shape than he found it upon his return in '04. In my analysis, that is not the case. While I applaud the addition of players like Portis, Randle-El, Thomas, Rabach, Fletcher, and the drafting of Taylor, Cooley, Rodgers, Landry, and Campbell - they have not brought the level of success that I, and just about all of us, expected. Squandering draft picks to get folks like Lloyd and Duckett have hurt the long term development of the organization. While I do not entirely place the blame for these bad moves on Joe's shoulders, the moves were made with his approval, if not his outright desire for them.
Should Gibbs step down at the end of the season? Maybe. He has earned the right, in my book, to see it through to the end, but at the end of his contract the Redskins will be no better than when he returned, and that is HUGELY DISAPPOINTING. In that regard, his return has been a failure. Will he be fired? Never. The Danny does not have the stones to do that.
This organization, with brief interludes in '99 and '05 has been in disarray for 16 years, and it will take more than a head coach to fix it.

If you are still reading this, then I applaud your patience. Thanks for taking the time.

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

2005 didn't count?

if one playoff trip in 4 seasons is success then I guess he has done something. To me, 1 trip in 4 seasons isn't what I call success and yearly progression. Its funny how some accept that as progression. 1 trip on 4 years, 2 in almost 10 years. That is not very successful to me. I dont want to settle for that, and frankly i dont think the majority of redskins fans do either. I want us to be fighting for playoffs every year, like the pats, colts, eagles, seahawks ect. thats success.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

if one playoff trip in 4 seasons is success then I guess he has done something. To me, 1 trip in 4 seasons isn't what I call success and yearly progression. Its funny how some accept that as progression. 1 trip on 4 years, 2 in almost 10 years. That is not very successful to me. I dont want to settle for that, and frankly i dont think the majority of redskins fans do either. I want us to be fighting for playoffs every year, like the pats, colts, eagles, seahawks ect. thats success.

Woah, don't get ahead of yourself here. You said that Gibbs hasn't done anything since returning, I simply pointed out that he has in fact done something.

I never equated 2005 with success or progress.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

2005 didn't count?

Why do people point to 2005 as some beacon of achievement? Yes, we won 5 straight and a playoff game but in the scheme of his return that's the equivalent to a blind squirrel finding a nut. That's an anomoly to the rest of the time he's been back..

Even with that streak he's still under .500 for his return, has an older team in worse cap shape than what he took over, other than that stretch has not won more than 2 games in a row, has had at least a 3 game losing streak each year, has not improved sideline/time/game management (see timeout gaffe last week) and has lost 15 games where the team has had a 2nd half lead..

Look, I love Gibbs as much as the next guy, was a huge fan during Gibbs 1.0, was crushed when he retired and elated when he came back but let's be real, he's not getting it done this time around and we're no better than we were when he took over..

I'm not trying to complain in the glow of last nights win (although it may seem as such) but even with that we're a game below .500 this year and out of the playoffs (as it stands now).. That's not progress nor what we should expect from a Hall of Fame coach..

[#56fanatic]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Woah, don't get ahead of yourself here. You said that Gibbs hasn't done anything since returning, I simply pointed out that he has in fact done something.

I never equated 2005 with success or progress.

I can see this is going to go on and on. You put 2005 as a question, yes or no? if you are saying 2005 was not a success, then he has done absolutely nothing. The team will be in no better position if he leaves this year or next that what it was before he got here. We all hoped that Joe would step in and stop some of Danny's needless spending, bad roster moves, and Joe has done none of that. We are still carrying more dead money than anyone in the NFL, highest payroll in NFL history and still fielding 5-11 teams. Joe has embrased this new found free agency that he didn't have before.

Question : what do you feel joe has done in his 4 years that would be labled as success? that is a serious question, not being sarcastic. Maybe you will bring a point up that I have not thought about or fail to see.

[MTK]

Nevermind, I was making a very simple point, guess you missed it.