Len Pastabelly on Gibbs' Retirement: "Just An Ordinary Joe"

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by irish

How have we improved substantially? Do the skins have good players? Yes but they have had good players in the past also.

I posted this in another thread, but I thought people might want to compare our starters, pre and post Gibbs.

OFFENSE

LT = unchanged
LG = Dockery to Kendall
C = Moore to Rabach
RG = unchanged
RT = unchanged
TE = Zeron Flemister to Chris Cooley
WR#1 = Coles to Moss
WR #2 = Gardner to ARE
RB = Trung Canidate to Clinton Portis
FB = Bryan Johnson to Mike Sellers

DEFENSE

LE = Wynn to Daniels
DT = Noble to Montgomery
DT = Dalton to Griffin
RE = Upshaw to Carter
OLB = Arrington to McIntosh
MLB = Trotter to Fletcher
OLB = Armstead to Washington
CB#1 = Bailey to Springs
CB #2 = Smoot to Smoot/Rogers
FS = Ohalete to Taylor*
SS = Bowen to Landry

Aside from the Bailey/Springs and Dockery/Kendall swaps, we are in much better position today than we were 4 years ago. Of the 22 starters Spurrier left Gibbs with, 11 are not even playing in the NFL (Ohalete, Bowen, Armstead, Arrington, Noble, Dalton, Upshaw, Moore, Flemister, Johnson, and Canidate). That's 50% of the team. Moreover, most of those guys are out of work due to poor play, not age or injury.

In short, we did NOT have a good roster in 2003. We appear to have a nice one in 2007.

[sancho2613]

ok then if you say the skins "barely made the playoffs twice while he was here". When Gibbs left i bet you would of wished to at least "barely make the playoffs" but you only made it once in what 12 years. Gibbs made it twice in his 4 years. I would say he's not a dissapointment at all especially with what he did just this year alone. I would say the Dolphins coach was a disappointment, maybe you need a coach like that so you can appreciate Gibbs or maybe you want to got to the playoffs just once in the next 12 years? would that be better then going twice in the last 4 years? I think you had a good chance of going to the SB this year how is that not an improvement from making the playoffs just once in 12 years when he was gone?

[Skins_FanFL]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I know you guys don't like it, but has Joe Gibbs been anything more than ordinary in his second stint? Defend your answer. Don't just call him a prick, but why should the public view a coach with a losing record in his second stint be deemed some sort of deity around the NFL. No one is taking away from what Gibbs did in the 80s and 90s, but prove to me using facts WHY Joe Gibbs should be seen as anything but an ordinary NFL coach in his second stint. You may not like the article, but that doesn't make it false, or means he 'hates' the Redskins. Every team thinks the media hates them.

Two playoff appearances in four seasons; the last after losing 6 starters, including your QB. That's not 'average".

[skinsguy]

Honestly Irish, you can make the case for the "other side" all you want, but you and Daseal are vastly outnumbered with this. There is no denying that we only benefited from having Joe Gibbs here.

[SkinEmAll]

I guess the more I read about our two blind, deaf and dumb fellow members,(by the way the blind deaf and dumb remark is not a personal attack, just an observation), My question to myself and everyone else here is.....why bother? Seriously, if these two and anyone else who is in agreement with them, cant see the difference in this team pre and post Gibbs II, well then to hell with em. I almost feel like they are doing it just for attention. I mean can someone really be that, blind, deaf and dumb?

[SmootSmack]

Look, it's one thing to disagree. It's another to call them blind, deaf, and dumb.

[BleedBurgundy]

Originally Posted by sancho2613

ok then if you say the skins "barely made the playoffs twice while he was here". When Gibbs left i bet you would of wished to at least "barely make the playoffs" but you only made it once in what 12 years. Gibbs made it twice in his 4 years. I would say he's not a dissapointment at all especially with what he did just this year alone. I would say the Dolphins coach was a disappointment, maybe you need a coach like that so you can appreciate Gibbs or maybe you want to got to the playoffs just once in the next 12 years? would that be better then going twice in the last 4 years? I think you had a good chance of going to the SB this year how is that not an improvement from making the playoffs just once in 12 years when he was gone?

This whole post is perfect. And you're a packer's fan... Positive rep points for you!

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Look, it's one thing to disagree. It's another to call them blind, deaf, and dumb.

Can we call them obtuse? as long as we do it with love in our hearts?

Seriously, as had been said throughout this thread, was Gibbs stellar in this last term? No. Was he "average"? No.

No other coach could have come into the 2003/2004 Skins and so fundamentally changed the team's (the entire team - FO, coaches & players) attitude from self-serving chaos to a true "team" concept.

IF we are lucky, Snyder did learn something from Gibbs about managing a team and, if he did so, then with a little luck we can be a constant winner again. The foundation for that is set thanks to Gibbs and THAT is no minor feat given where we were as a team.

[irish]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Can we call them obtuse? as long as we do it with love in our hearts?

Seriously, as had been said throughout this thread, was Gibbs stellar in this last term? No. Was he "average"? No.

No other coach could have come into the 2003/2004 Skins and so fundamentally changed the team's (the entire team - FO, coaches & players) attitude from self-serving chaos to a true "team" concept.

IF we are lucky, Snyder did learn something from Gibbs about managing a team and, if he did so, then with a little luck we can be a constant winner again. The foundation for that is set thanks to Gibbs and THAT is no minor feat given where we were as a team.

You make a great point in your last sentence. I believe Snyder will think he learned a lot from Gibbs and because of that, and Gibbs being gone, will assume a bigger role in player evaluation and free agent signings. He defered a lot to Gibbs while Gibbs was here but now that Gibbs is gone and Danny has studied at the feet of his hero he will assume the involved role he had in the past. It could get real interesting.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by irish

You make a great point in your last sentence. I believe Snyder will think he learned a lot from Gibbs and because of that, and Gibbs being gone, will assume a bigger role in player evaluation and free agent signings. He defered a lot to Gibbs while Gibbs was here but now that Gibbs is gone and Danny has studied at the feet of his hero he will assume the involved role he had in the past. It could get real interesting.

I don't mind an involved Danny if it results in FA signings like this past year. If, on the other hand, it results in more Adam Archuletta's and Brandon LLoyd's, I would substitute "crappy" for "real interesting."

[irish]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I don't mind an involved Danny if it results in FA signings like this past year. If, on the other hand, it results in more Adam Archuletta's and Brandon LLoyd's, I would substitute "crappy" for "real interesting."

Call me old fashioned but I think football people should be making football decisions and owners should make ownership decisions.

[firstdown]

I thought it would be interesting to see what people where saying when Gibbs was hired but I could not find anything that far back. I did find this one thread and by reading these post (not sure how many of these people still post) Gibbs did not hit the mark people thought he would hit when he arrived. Gibbs did allot to help this team but I also think that he feel short in other areas.
http://www.redskinswarpath.com/locke...kins+superbowl

[SkinEmAll]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Look, it's one thing to disagree. It's another to call them blind, deaf, and dumb.

99% of Redskins nation disagree. Which is my point, how can they not see, hear and understand the difference Gibbs has had on this team, front office and owner?

[BDBohnzie]

I don't think it's an issue of the effect Gibbs had on the franchise, but more of the results that were lacking, as well as the lack of structure left in the front office.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by SkinEmAll

99% of Redskins nation disagree. Which is my point, how can they not see, hear and understand the difference Gibbs has had on this team, front office and owner?

I don't think anyone would disagree that Gibbs left this organization better than when he arrived but I believe that allot of people (myself included) fell that he feel short in winning us game and making a run to a SB.