Our WRs in 2009... My Thoughts

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Wide Receiver seems like such a situational position to me. Kelly could have probably gone to Denver and put up the same stats as Eddie Royal, Thomas could have probably gone to Philly and produced like DeSean Jackson and DeSean Jackson could have come here and been inactive most of the year (due to poor attitude and excessive clubbing). Hardy's got talent, but the Bills offense might be as dysfunctional as ours.

It just seems that WR stats fluctuate wildly based on circumstance. Look when Welker goes to NE, Moss goes to Oakland, Roddy White gets a new QB, Santana is all over the map, etc.)

I just find it hard to believe that we whiffed completely on Kelly, Thomas and Davis. With our offense being one of the worst in the league, I don't see how we could have done any worse with those guys on the field. And like I've said many times, there are ways to move the ball and score points without relying heavily on receivers (San Diego, Miami, Baltimore, KC, for many years, etc.).

I'm more inclined to point to other factors, such as poor coaching and development, poor pass protection and/or poor QB play (hard to tell for sure what's to blame), and poor play calling.

And it's not just with rookies. We take guys like Brandon Lloyd and David Patten and get little to no production out of them (New Orleans and Chicago got at least marginal production from both of them). There are systemic problems with the Skins than supercede any deficiencies with the players.

Great post. IMO it comes right down to some of the things you mentioned. Poor coaching/ play calling, up and down QB play. Davis was the best TE in college last year yet we can't even get him on the field. Then I watch Philly over the weekend and McNabb is throwing to some TE that I've never seen or heard of.

While I was watching the Philly game and really could not believe that McNabb gets it done with the current group... guys like Curtis, Avery, Brown, Jackson and some no name TE. Actually I think Jackson is the best of the group and he's a rookie. And Reid has so much confidence in McNabb that he's calling pass plays from shotgun on their own 3 yard line. After watching Philly over the weekend I'd almost be more inclined to fire Zorn if I were Snyder.

[Meks]

package EL & BETTS in a trade for draft picks.

and heavily pursue TJ

[30gut]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

And Reid has so much confidence in McNabb that he's calling pass plays from shotgun on their own 3 yard line

Confidence in the pass protection.

[SBXVII]

44Deezel, I agree with everything you said in your earlier post. Your #3 was in regards to the RB's being used to catch balls. I was confused the whole time Gibbs was here and was slightly confused this year as to why we didn't use it more. Especially with teams like the Giants who have a good D-line and pass rush with their LB's. I could not figure out why we were not running the RB around to get behind the LB's and throw a short pass to them and allow them to gain YAC.

Your #4 was in refernce to having a 2-3 back system. We already have 3 backs. I for one don't understand why we didn't use more split formations or off set formations. We mostly used I-formation and it was with Sellers or Cooley as a lead blocker. When we did use split or off set formations they stayed in the back field and blocked.

You also mentioned this:
The Skins had less pass interference calls than any other team in the league and couldn't outscore the first team to go 0-16. Maybe if Zorn gave Campbell the green light to take more chances, he would be more willing to throw into tight coverage. This would solve his problem of holding onto the ball too long. Single coverage is open in the NFL.

The bottom line is that the wide receivers aren't the problem. Most of the biggest and baddest receivers in the game will be sitting this year's Super Bowl out while a guy like Ricky Sanders or Deion Brach could very well be the difference maker.

I really don't know why we didn't try and go long more often. I felt it might create some situations where we would get pass interference call pushing us closer to the goal line.

You mentioned that we had small WR's in Gibbs first term...ie; the smurfs. I recall those years. I truely believe we don't need any tall WR's but they are nice to have. Keep in mind we probably had one of the best WR's coach in those days. Hixon was pulled from the college ranks by Gibbs. He was liked cause he did so well in the college ranks. I have no problem with them trying him and if he has done more then he has I would be defending him, but he has not. I feel it's time to move on from that expierment and get a qualified WR's coach. I totaly agree with you in regards to Lloyd and Patten. Then there has been all the WR's we have picked up from the draft usually late round and probably would not amount to much anyway but Hixon should have been able to find a servicable WR in the 5 yrs he's been here to develope. He has not. All go on the practice squad and then get let go. Our best WR's are Moss, ARE and Thrash. All three trained elsewhere prior to coming here. I think thats the ony reason they are any good. I'm not sure if it's the way Hixon is wanting them to run their routes or his lack of coaching them to get open and get the ball but we have had problems since he has been here. We keep hearing how our WR's can't get open, can't get off the line, don't run good routes, screw up the routes, and forget their assignments. I honestly believe thats a reflection of the position coach, Hixon. I think Zorn needs to bring someone else in that has talent in developing WR's and building QB/WR combinations. I really don't care who it is but we have no WR's worth a darn waiting in the wings because of lack of develpement and the WR's we do have show lack of production. Time for a change.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

And Reid has so much confidence in McNabb that he's calling pass plays from shotgun on their own 3 yard line. After watching Philly over the weekend I'd almost be more inclined to fire Zorn if I were Snyder.

Why does Reid have confidence in McNabb(if he does) because he has been with him forever. I would think that the Eagles resurgence would give more proof that time and patience are what Zorn/Campbell needs, not a quick firing.

[SirClintonPortis]

Reid throws all the time at the goal line and third and short because he has no power running game. There was that debacle earlier in the season where the opposing defense had a goal line stand because he called to run plays in a row and couldn't get in.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Why does Reid have confidence in McNabb(if he does) because he has been with him forever. I would think that the Eagles resurgence would give more proof that time and patience are what Zorn/Campbell needs, not a quick firing.

Yeah seriously, Reid and McNabb have been together forever now. There's a reason why their offense functions at the level that it does. Constant firing of coaches and changing QBs gets you nowhere.

[firstdown]

Here is just a tought. Zorn comes here and has to build a playbook and also teach it to our players. He spends most of his time concerned with our starters learning the plays first and then sometime with back ups and rookies (remember no one knows the play book). We start the season and things look pretty good so they keep working with the starters and getting them ready for the games and adding new plays. While things are working great the time is spent with the starters and not the back ups and/or rookies (remember players are still learning the play book). So we are now 8 games into the season and it seems everything is going better than planned but things then start to go wrong. We are also now limited to who we can start or play because all the time was needed to get the starters up to speed in Zorns O. So now when teams have figured out how to stop the Skins we really did not have a plan B because we never had a chance to get them into the system.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Here is just a tought. Zorn comes here and has to build a playbook and also teach it to our players. He spends most of his time concerned with our starters learning the plays first and then sometime with back ups and rookies (remember no one knows the play book). We start the season and things look pretty good so they keep working with the starters and getting them ready for the games and adding new plays. While things are working great the time is spent with the starters and not the back ups and/or rookies (remember players are still learning the play book). So we are now 8 games into the season and it seems everything is going better than planned but things then start to go wrong. We are also now limited to who we can start or play because all the time was needed to get the starters up to speed in Zorns O. So now when teams have figured out how to stop the Skins we really did not have a plan B because we never had a chance to get them into the system.

This makes some sense, but I would guess that the rooks got some time w/the 1st unit, especially in 3 & 4 wr sets. Your point also is that the players need hands on training, which I'm sure they do in a new system. However, that doesn't mean everyone's not expected to come to practice prepared, i.e. in shape & knowing the plays (from a knowledge standpoint of the playbook at least). Zorn said these guys weren't in shape & if what JLC says is true, they didn't have a good grasp of the offense throughout the year as well.

Thomas got plenty of playing time as the season went on. That last pick in the Pitt game, JLC said was Thomas' fault for running the route poorly. Don't know if that's true, but regardless, he either wasn't getting open on most plays, JC didn't see him often, or JC didn't look his way much for lack of trust. Whatever the conclusion, at this point I don't see how anyone could say he had a good rookie year. Let's hope he comes to ota's & camp ready to work & takes ARE's starting spot.

[GoSkins!]

Jason Campbell made a comment about how James Thrash was "always in the right place, never misses an assignment" when someone was talking to him about his WR's. Don't remember exactly, but it seemed like he was explaining why Thrash was on the field in crucial situations instead of the rookie "playmakers". What I heard was Jason Campbell calling someone out (you know who you are Devin) for acting like learning the playbook and route running is to hard even though the old man (Thrash) can do it with no problem.

Until these guys wake up and accept that they have to think, use thier own brain, and apply themselves they won't ever be any more than "potentially" good.

[shack]

Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina.

As bad as we need help on both lines of scrimmage, I've seen this guy play all year and he's a bona fide play maker. Looks like a young T.O. with better hands. This guy runs like a deer, had 68 catches -1222 yards - 18.0 average per reception - and 12 touch downs last season, his junior year.

I covet him for the burgundy and gold.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by shack

Hakeem Nicks, WR, North Carolina.

As bad as we need help on both lines of scrimmage, I've seen this guy play all year and he's a bona fide play maker. Looks like a young T.O. with better hands. This guy runs like a deer, had 68 catches -1222 yards - 18.0 average per reception - and 12 touch downs last season, his junior year.

I covet him for the burgundy and gold.

He's a freak for sure. Too bad we blew our wad on pass catchers last season.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by GoSkins!

Jason Campbell made a comment about how James Thrash was "always in the right place, never misses an assignment" when someone was talking to him about his WR's. Don't remember exactly, but it seemed like he was explaining why Thrash was on the field in crucial situations instead of the rookie "playmakers". What I heard was Jason Campbell calling someone out (you know who you are Devin) for acting like learning the playbook and route running is to hard even though the old man (Thrash) can do it with no problem.

Until these guys wake up and accept that they have to think, use thier own brain, and apply themselves they won't ever be any more than "potentially" good.

Wow, and he could only get him 9 recp. for the year.

[RedskinPete]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Also for those of you who wanted the Skins to pick up Marcus Monk(including myself) it shows he was cut from the Giants roster on NFL.com. Anyone still want a 6-4 212 WR? Also Mix is still available and he was supposed to be the next Burress.

Did Mix shot himself to? Got to be like Burress!

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by RedskinPete

Did Mix shot himself to? Got to be like Burress!

Oh boy.