FOX - Botched trade will put pressure on Redskins

[redskins1974]

Gtripp, im not on here looking to find common ground. I am looking to discuss different points of view.

ok - forget comparing O-lines, Defense, QB rating and team won / loss records.

so tell me the reason Denver turned down two #1 picks AND JC for Cutler? why did no team pickup JC for the skins 2nd round pick, when it was on the table? his lack of market value should tell you something - other nfl teams dont really want him. forget my personal opinion, but this was even discussed on the NFL network.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by redskins1974

Gtripp, im not on here looking to find common ground. I am looking to discuss different points of view.

ok - forget comparing O-lines, Defense, QB rating and team won / loss records.

so tell me the reason Denver turned down two #1 picks AND JC for Cutler? why did no team pickup JC for the skins 2nd round pick, when it was on the table? his lack of market value should tell you something - other nfl teams dont really want him. forget my personal opinion, but this was even discussed on the NFL network.

Well, of course other teams don't want him. He's not a whiny brat like Jay Cutler, nor is he an established talent.

If teams acted 100% rationally, there would have been no market for Jay Cutler. It would have been "okay, our project QB and a third round pick for your project QB". That would have been the market. Teams don't always act rationally. The Redskins being there 1) drove up the price, and 2) defined the player (Cutler) as a proven commodity, as opposed to a young, promising QB, which is what Cutler is.

Understand that the Redskins COULD have done something similar with Jason Campbell had that been their goal (to artifically inflate his value and then trade him to a team that really wants a franchise QB). It would never have gotten to the levels the Cutler sweepstakes got to, but it's all cognitive dissonace theory. We spend a month talking up Campbell, defending his statistics, placing the blame for his failures elsewhere, just generally acting like he's the greatest QB we've had since Theismann and all of a sudden we say "Colt Brennan is our Quarterback". There's a huge market for Jason Campbell's services, then. If the perception is that you are willing to trade a young franchise QB, the reality is that someone will pay you accordingly.

The point is, we never bothered to treat Jason Campbell like the future of our franchise, so other teams don't value him more highly than we do. He still might be the future, but at this point, he's unquestionably the present. We can't trade him for anything right now because of the way we acted around Cutler. A year from now, he'll probably have a ton of trade value, but we might be betteer off holding onto him anyway.

[SmootSmack]

Refusing to send a 2nd round pick for Campbell is less about Campbell than it is about leverage. For one thing, we don't know that Campbell was shopped to the entire league and not just a few teams. Further, if you know a team is shopping a QB for a 2nd rounder that they may not even re-sign after the upcoming season is over wouldn't you counter with a lesser offer?

My guess is the Redskins said let's see if team x, y, and z will take Campbell for a 2nd rounder. If they say no (which they probably will) we'll just pull him off the table. We're not looking to negotiate a trade here, just see if someone will take him for a 2nd rounder.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Refusing to send a 2nd round pick for Campbell is less about Campbell than it is about leverage. For one thing, we don't know that Campbell was shopped to the entire league and not just a few teams. Further, if you know a team is shopping a QB for a 2nd rounder that they may not even re-sign after the upcoming season is over wouldn't you counter with a lesser offer?

My guess is the Redskins said let's see if team x, y, and z will take Campbell for a 2nd rounder. If they say no (which they probably will) we'll just pull him off the table. We're not looking to negotiate a trade here, just see if someone will take him for a 2nd rounder.

Good post. I think people tend to over simplify the argument. JC was shopped for a 2nd rounder and nobody bit...nobody likes Jason Campbell.

Umm, it's not quite that simple.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Good post. I think people tend to over simplify the argument. JC was shopped for a 2nd rounder and nobody bit...nobody likes Jason Campbell.

Umm, it's not quite that simple.

The Redskins would have been exponentially better off shopping him with an asking price of a 1st and a 4th. Of course, nobody would have done that, but it would have sent a message to other teams that we're perfectly alright holding on to Campbell if you aren't going to play our game, and since we're your most serious suitor, you might want to come talk turkey with us.

Of course, Snyder's biggest issue has always been that he operates in the here and now, and at that very moment, a 2nd round pick was more valuable to him than Jason Campbell was, so he kind of screwed himself over to an extent. I'm not at all surprised that the deal didn't get done given the information, and I still have no idea how Snyder can seem so ignorant of most principles of business and remain so successful.

I mean, Pat Bowlen, every word out of his mouth was "Jay Cutler is a fantastic player", and here's Snyder trying to sell low on Campbell and wondering why there's such a discrepancy in the perceived value of the two. Bowlen, even in the face of a mismanaged situation, still managed to make other owners play his game. That's very impressive.

[Zerohero]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Good post. I think people tend to over simplify the argument. JC was shopped for a 2nd rounder and nobody bit...nobody likes Jason Campbell.

I'll eat spoiled milk before i believe Campbell was shopped to anyone for a second round pick. That just can't be so.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Refusing to send a 2nd round pick for Campbell is less about Campbell than it is about leverage. For one thing, we don't know that Campbell was shopped to the entire league and not just a few teams. Further, if you know a team is shopping a QB for a 2nd rounder that they may not even re-sign after the upcoming season is over wouldn't you counter with a lesser offer?

My guess is the Redskins said let's see if team x, y, and z will take Campbell for a 2nd rounder. If they say no (which they probably will) we'll just pull him off the table. We're not looking to negotiate a trade here, just see if someone will take him for a 2nd rounder.

Smoot, good points. I'm a little tired of hearing how the skins couldn't get a 2nd for Campbell too. We don't know how many teams they contacted, and Danny & Vinny would only trade him contingent upon getting Cutler first. For all we know there could've been a very serious trade partner, but it all became irrelevant once Cutler went to Chicago.

It wasn't like Mike Ditka in 99 saying publicly 'I'll trade all my picks for ricky williams!' It was only reported through an "nfl source" that Jason C. was offered up.

[redskins1974]

wow im hurt. really.. lol

[Pocket$ $traight]

I think this is pretty simple. JC has shown several deficiencies. However, it is tough to argue that he has had a true chance to become a long term option. How many "systems" has Peyton Manning been in? How many for Brady? JC isn't in the same sentence as them but the point is pretty clear. Bringing in a new offense every year and then expecting improvement is pretty moronic if you ask me.

Now, JC was 6-2 and then 2-6. In the first half of the season our runningback was #1 in the league and we even had former Eagles calling JC the MVP. This is well known but what changed in the second half? The o-line disintegrated. So anyone who comes on this site or sits next to you in a bar and says that JC is THE problem needs to order another mind eraser. You show me a QB who can lose an all-pro tackle, count on a left guard who has to miss a day of practice every week, play behind a right guard with a broken neck and count on an right tackle coming off an exorcist ankle injury. We are younger on the left side so let's get this guy a monster rookie right tackle and see if JC is worth keeping. Cutler was sacked 10 times and is a primadonna diabetic who cannot drink enough. JC was running for his life all season and posted decent stats while getting sacked 36 times. Hell, the first play of the season which they worked on for weeks was a sack.

So if you in your heart truly believe it is worth two first round picks, switching a 3 for a 5 plus Jason Campbell for Cutler, well, maybe you should forget about discussing football and try to run six flags.

[GridIron26]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

I think this is pretty simple. JC has shown several deficiencies. However, it is tough to argue that he has had a true chance to become a long term option. How many "systems" has Peyton Manning been in? How many for Brady? JC isn't in the same sentence as them but the point is pretty clear. Bringing in a new offense every year and then expecting improvement is pretty moronic if you ask me.

Now, JC was 6-2 and then 2-6. In the first half of the season our runningback was #1 in the league and we even had former Eagles calling JC the MVP. This is well known but what changed in the second half? The o-line disintegrated. So anyone who comes on this site or sits next to you in a bar and says that JC is THE problem needs to order another mind eraser. You show me a QB who can lose an all-pro tackle, count on a left guard who has to miss a day of practice every week, play behind a right guard with a broken neck and count on an right tackle coming off an exorcist ankle injury. We are younger on the left side so let's get this guy a monster rookie right tackle and see if JC is worth keeping. Cutler was sacked 10 times and is a primadonna diabetic who cannot drink enough. JC was running for his life all season and posted decent stats while getting sacked 36 times. Hell, the first play of the season which they worked on for weeks was a sack.

So if you in your heart truly believe it is worth two first round picks, switching a 3 for a 5 plus Jason Campbell for Cutler, well, maybe you should forget about discussing football and try to run six flags.

Good post

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Pocket$ $traight

I think this is pretty simple. JC has shown several deficiencies. However, it is tough to argue that he has had a true chance to become a long term option. How many "systems" has Peyton Manning been in? How many for Brady? JC isn't in the same sentence as them but the point is pretty clear. Bringing in a new offense every year and then expecting improvement is pretty moronic if you ask me.

Now, JC was 6-2 and then 2-6. In the first half of the season our runningback was #1 in the league and we even had former Eagles calling JC the MVP. This is well known but what changed in the second half? The o-line disintegrated. So anyone who comes on this site or sits next to you in a bar and says that JC is THE problem needs to order another mind eraser. You show me a QB who can lose an all-pro tackle, count on a left guard who has to miss a day of practice every week, play behind a right guard with a broken neck and count on an right tackle coming off an exorcist ankle injury. We are younger on the left side so let's get this guy a monster rookie right tackle and see if JC is worth keeping. Cutler was sacked 10 times and is a primadonna diabetic who cannot drink enough. JC was running for his life all season and posted decent stats while getting sacked 36 times. Hell, the first play of the season which they worked on for weeks was a sack.

So if you in your heart truly believe it is worth two first round picks, switching a 3 for a 5 plus Jason Campbell for Cutler, well, maybe you should forget about discussing football and try to run six flags.

I wish I would of said that. Pocket$ $traight NAILED it!

[redskins1974]

you make it sound like it was a one sided topic. There were alot of Skins fans that wanted that trade to happen.....

[theJBexperience]

The National Football Post | Browns Looking To Make A Splash?

I hope the Skins aren't the team offering their 1st round pick for Brady Quinn.