Potential Epic Fail

[SouperMeister]

I was trying to remember the last time we had a consistently competent offense, and sadly, that was way back when Norv Turner was our coach. I'm very troubled that Zorn doesn't deploy multiple BIG receivers when the offense gets inside the 10 yard line. We have yet to see a fade to Kelly, Thomas, or Mitchell for that matter. Drafting all these big WRs is a total waste if we refuse to use them. We should have used the three 2nd round picks in 2008 to bolster O-line depth.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

I was trying to remember the last time we had a consistently competent offense, and sadly, that was way back when Norv Turner was our coach. I'm very troubled that Zorn doesn't deploy multiple BIG receivers when the offense gets inside the 10 yard line. We have yet to see a fade to Kelly, Thomas, or Mitchell for that matter. Drafting all these big WRs is a total waste if we refuse to use them. We should have used the three 2nd round picks in 2008 to bolster O-line depth.

Yeah...it begs the question...Why did we try so hard to draft a receiver with our first 3 picks and then run, run, desperate pass, punt on every series?

These receivers we tried to secure with all 3 of our picks are going to have no impact in our run HEAVY offense...what the hell was so important to selecting them?

You're right why wouldn't we have drafted OL if we intended to run all the time?

[SBXVII]

So help me out.....Where does our problems lie? I was thinking last night that we held the Giants to 23 points unlike Dallas. We were in the "Red Zone" 4-5 times against them which might have let us win the game. Defense again held their own yesterday but the offense let us down again. We were in the "Red Zone" 3-4 times which would have been a blow out had we scored TD's each time.

Watching the Giants/Dallas game it looks like their defenses are definitly not as good as ours, but their offenses are a lot better. Both teams scored on each other pretty freely. If we can get our scoring maching on a roll we might be a lot better team then both. Thats the good side of things.

What I observed, Dallas obviously has an outside running threat that the Giants didn't want to have them explioted so they spread out their defense 3 DL in the box to keep everything in front of them and between the tackles. Dallas ran up the middle all day. When we played the Giants they were not afraid of us running outside so they stacked the box with 8 DL in side the tackles which in effect took our running game away from us. Did anyone else notice and what can we do?

[cdskins26]

I think we should win but cant manage to ever be right with this team. If our defense keeps up the good play and campbell and portis perform it will be an easy day. If we dont snyder may begin a very quiet "stalin-esque" party purge.

[JLee9718]

It's time for the offense to win a game. But if the 'Skins lose to the Lions, Zorn should be fired, and I've been backing him ever since he was hired. I just can't take anymore poorly planned offensive schemes, but it's more than Zorn, it's Campbell, too. He refuses to get rid of the ball by making quick decisions. Watching some of these other QBs really opens your eyes to Campbell's problems.

[Lotus]

If we lose to the Lions I will change my avatar to a Cowboys avatar for a week.

The shame of losing will be far worse than the shame of the avatar.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by Lotus

If we lose to the Lions I will change my avatar to a Cowboys avatar for a week.

The shame of losing will be far worse than the shame of the avatar.

Wow.. I can see the WP's bandwidth being absolutely ridic if we lose to the Lions.

Like.. the planets will align, hell may reign down on the Metro area, and the Rant Thread in off topic will grow to the size of the Super Happy Fun Thread in the matter of a night.

I suggest Zorn sleep with the lights on and a bodyguard as well.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by JLee9718

It's time for the offense to win a game. But if the 'Skins lose to the Lions, Zorn should be fired, and I've been backing him ever since he was hired. I just can't take anymore poorly planned offensive schemes, but it's more than Zorn, it's Campbell, too. He refuses to get rid of the ball by making quick decisions. Watching some of these other QBs really opens your eyes to Campbell's problems.

Yeah; seeing rookies, backups, etc making quick multiple reads and not just going oh god number 1 isn't there where's Cooley or my RB is kinda

Seems like everyone else can get instant replay worthy plays, jump balls (for a short guy moss isn't bad at these), really clutch passes, etc.. where the QB will put the ball into the right spot for the WR to make a play downfield... the ones that go right over the defender and fall to the WR.. I haven't seen much from Campbell suggesting that he can drop that ball in there like that.. he needs the guy 5 yards open like college if the WR isn't on the inside

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Yeah; seeing rookies, backups, etc making quick multiple reads and not just going oh god number 1 isn't there where's Cooley or my RB is kinda

Seems like everyone else can get instant replay worthy plays, jump balls (for a short guy moss isn't bad at these), really clutch passes, etc.. where the QB will put the ball into the right spot for the WR to make a play downfield... the ones that go right over the defender and fall to the WR.. I haven't seen much from Campbell suggesting that he can drop that ball in there like that.. he needs the guy 5 yards open like college if the WR isn't on the inside

Well there ya go, fire zorn now, and campbell, and tell ESPN they better have cameras rolling (smoot i'm talking to you) and be showing us on sportscenter every hour!

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Well there ya go, fire zorn now, and campbell, and tell ESPN they better have cameras rolling (smoot i'm talking to you) and be showing us on sportscenter every hour!

Doesn't our lack of ability to make those types of plays bother you?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Doesn't our lack of ability to make those types of plays bother you?

I would love to see them, I think Kelly has a lot of potential.

But, let me ask you, did you see the London Fletcher hit on Jacobs? Did that get played on Sportscenter. Nope. What about AH pushing 2 players back every play. Nope. Or Rodgers batting away passes to prevent big plays. Nope. did I get excited by those. Heck yeah.

I want to see consistent steady improvement and solid football games. And I see that. I know the kool aid is great blah blah blah.

Last year, all year we could not consistently move the football. This year we have had 10 out of 15 drives against the NYG and Rams that started in our territory and went 30+ yds, 5 of those 15 ended in points, 2 ended in punts, 2 ended in turnovers and 1 ended on downs in scoring position. So yes we are moving the ball better, more consistently. We are sustaining drives.

I believe the points will come. And I believe we have seen better football on both lines, (which is what everyone griped about over the offseason) and even when a backup stepped in(montgomery) our team kept moving.

I want a winning spirit. And mistake free football. And more points. I don't really care about the highlight reels (unless it's Campbell lifting a Lombardi with Zorn)

[Pocket$ $traight]

Originally Posted by mredskins

I am talking about next week against Detriot. It is very likely we are going to lose. They seem better then the Rams and we will be playing them at their house.

It is going to be horrible if we lose that game. The media will be all over it.

Very likely we are going to lose? Are you drunk? We have handled Detroit the last two years and our defense is getting better by the snap.

I understand being concerned about next week, but "very likely" to lose to a team that hasn't won since 2007 is pretty ridiculous.

[mooby]

I know I'm not the only one that doesn't want Cowher to come in here next year. He'd run Clinton Portis into retirement and try and switch our d-personnel to a 3-4, aka pretty much the exact opposite type of linebackers and d-lineman that we have except for Haynesworth. I don't want a guy who won one Super Bowl after like 15 years with one franchise. And you know Snyder would still have Cerrato making all the decisions. Disaster in the making if you ask me.

But if we lose to the Lions JZ will be as good as gone. It's like I keep hearing, if you're gonna go out, go out firing, don't leave your bullets in the clip. But what makes people believe that JZ is willing to place all his trust in Campbell in the red zone all of a sudden? Unless he had some massive change of heart and decided it's time to let Campbell open it up I don't think we'll see innovative changes in the red zone next week. Mitchell can't even get on the field in the game, what makes people think all of a sudden JZ is gonna start inserting him and Kelly into all (probably 1 or 2 what with the heavy running to the left side) our red zone pass plays? I mean we'd all love to see a 3 wr set with Mitchell, Kelly, and Cooley down in the red zone but I just don't think it's gonna happen. I think Zorn is gonna keep trying to run Portis into the end zone until either he snaps or the team snaps. For me, the fact of the thing is that Zorn doesn't trust the offense to throw the ball into the endzone when we're down there. And that distrust ain't gonna disappear just like that.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by mooby

I know I'm not the only one that doesn't want Cowher to come in here next year. He'd run Clinton Portis into retirement and try and switch our d-personnel to a 3-4, aka pretty much the exact opposite type of linebackers and d-lineman that we have except for Haynesworth. I don't want a guy who won one Super Bowl after like 15 years with one franchise. And you know Snyder would still have Cerrato making all the decisions. Disaster in the making if you ask me.

A few thoughts on this

- A big reason why Cowher ran the 3-4 defense in Pittsburgh is because he entrusted the defense when he started to Dick Lebeau (and to a lesser extent Dom Capers) a huge proponent of the 3-4. But Cowher has said that he's not married to the 3-4 defense and wouldn't use it if the talent was there for a 4-3

- One of the "knocks" against Cowher has been that he really didn't do anything as an X and Os guy on game day, that he left the offense up to Bruce Arians/Whisenhunt etc. and the defense to Lebeau and whoever else was the DC. To that end, I would suspect that if he became the head coach his role would be more of a Joe Gibbs than a Jim Zorn

- Are you saying you don't want to wait 15 years for a Super Bowl? Because really Cowher's record during that 15 year span is pretty solid.

- Why is it a problem for VC to continue to make personnel decisions? Is that just the popular thing to say? Talent wise, I think he's putting a pretty solid team together. Of course, there are still some question marks. But really those can't be answered until they get opportunities. So, of course, the issue is whose fault is it they are not getting the opportunities. You can, however, make the argument that if Zorn isn't capable of succeeding and is fired then Cerrato should go with him. Because if Cerrato who told Snyder that Zorn was the guy (and not Fassel, for example) and that Snyder should put his faith in Zorn.

if it comes down to Shananan or Cowher (the popular choics), I can think of good reasons for both and neither.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

A few thoughts on this

- A big reason why Cowher ran the 3-4 defense in Pittsburgh is because he entrusted the defense when he started to Dick Lebeau (and to a lesser extent Dom Capers) a huge proponent of the 3-4. But Cowher has said that he's not married to the 3-4 defense and wouldn't use it if the talent was there for a 4-3

- One of the "knocks" against Cowher has been that he really didn't do anything as an X and Os guy on game day, that he left the offense up to Bruce Arians/Whisenhunt etc. and the defense to Lebeau and whoever else was the DC. To that end, I would suspect that if he became the head coach his role would be more of a Joe Gibbs than a Jim Zorn

- Are you saying you don't want to wait 15 years for a Super Bowl? Because really Cowher's record during that 15 year span is pretty solid.

- Why is it a problem for VC to continue to make personnel decisions? Is that just the popular thing to say? Talent wise, I think he's putting a pretty solid team together. Of course, there are still some question marks. But really those can't be answered until they get opportunities. So, of course, the issue is whose fault is it they are not getting the opportunities. You can, however, make the argument that if Zorn isn't capable of succeeding and is fired then Cerrato should go with him. Because if Cerrato who told Snyder that Zorn was the guy (and not Fassel, for example) and that Snyder should put his faith in Zorn.
if it comes down to Shananan or Cowher (the popular choics), I can think of good reasons for both and neither.

Vinnie takes a lot of flack from people who don't really understand his job, sure, but at some point don't you have to win something? I mean, it's a bottom line league. 　He's put a team together that is clearly talented in ways but lacks depth and balance in others. As this season progresses, if none of the 08 second rounders step up, if the offensive line continues to whither, if Deangelo Hall continues to look like a 60 million dollar liability, and if the team continues to swim around the 500 mark, how can one continue to defend the guy? I mean, we've been on the three year plan for almost 10 years now. Maybe it's not completely fair but who else in football gets to underperform and keep their job in perpetuity?