Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Ravens)

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by NYCskinfan82

Please remember everyone get beat/drops a pass/fumbles/commits a foul everyonce and awhile.

You would think people would keep this in mind, but not with a guy like Hall. People will bitch about him no matter what.

[Bucket]

You guys pull out one incident on a guy and that automatically makes him a poor tackler?

That's like saying Sean Taylor was a poor tackler because he got run over and stepped on from that Wilson guy from WVU? Who didn't even get drafted by any team or make it past college.

Merriman is a bad pass rusher because he got stone walled by Jones-Drew

Flacco is a bad QB because he threw 4 INT's in his first game last year?

You can't label someone something because of one incident, that's totally ludicrous. Hall tackles well for a cornerback and he is what he is. He'll give up plays trying to make big ones, but most of the time he makes more plays then he gives up. He was 3rd ont he team in tackles last year with almost 100 tackles.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Bucket

You can't label someone something because of one incident, that's totally ludicrous. Hall tackles well for a cornerback and he is what he is. He'll give up plays trying to make big ones, but most of the time he makes more plays then he gives up. He was 3rd ont he team in tackles last year with almost 100 tackles.

On Hall's tackling, as others have mentioned, this is just an example, if you really watch the games closely or look at a DVR'd game....well let's just say the "eye in the sky don't lie".

Here is my problem with Hall and fans that support his play. Hall gives up far more plays than he makes, but the ones he makes are INTs and are what people remember from the game.
They don't remember:
- the 14 yds easy completion to Evans where hall wasn't within 2 yds of him
- or the 3 & 4 slant where Hall was abused, but fortunately the WR dropped
- or the whip route that Boldin abused Hall on for a first
- or the weak tackle effort from Hall on Boldin on the Otagwe blown coverage
- or the TD where Evans just blew by our #1 "speed" corner who couldn't recover and made no play on the ball
....and that was in 1 half without me really looking a Hall's tackling (I know he missed at least one other tackle)

Yes the INT for TD was a good play, but is it worth 2 first downs (a 3rd was dropped) to keep drives alive, plus a TD....I don't think so. Trust me on this, no OC fears Hall. On the contrary, OCs look to take advantage of Hall and for the most part they are successful.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

On Hall's tackling, as others have mentioned, this is just an example, if you really watch the games closely or look at a DVR'd game....well let's just say the "eye in the sky don't lie".

Here is my problem with Hall and fans that support his play. Hall gives up far more plays than he makes, but the ones he makes are INTs and are what people remember from the game.
They don't remember:
- the 14 yds easy completion to Evans where hall wasn't within 2 yds of him
- or the 3 & 4 slant where Hall was abused, but fortunately the WR dropped
- or the whip route that Boldin abused Hall on for a first
- or the weak tackle effort from Hall on Boldin on the Otagwe blown coverage
- or the TD where Evans just blew by our #1 "speed" corner who couldn't recover and made no play on the ball
....and that was in 1 half without me really looking a Hall's tackling (I know he missed at least one other tackle)

Yes the INT for TD was a good play, but is it worth 2 first downs (a 3rd was dropped) to keep drives alive, plus a TD....I don't think so. Trust me on this, no OC fears Hall. On the contrary, OCs look to take advantage of Hall and for the most part they are successful.

You're just picking on the guy lol.. The Evans play was a good throw and play by the offense in which Hall still almost pulled the ball out to make a play.

The 3 yard slant? Really? Come on man.. He was tight on that coverage too, and if the WR makes the catch it's a 4 yard gain.

You're just being finicky with Hall, and it's the other side of the field we have to worry about more then Hall. Hall can't make all the plays,and he's not the guy who is going to lock down every play and every WR in the game today, but he's a good corner and I support him.

Our opinions wont change, so i'm going to agree to disagree. The guy won 2 games for us last year, and i'm glad he's a Redskin

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Bucket

You're just picking on the guy lol.. The Evans play was a good throw and play by the offense in which Hall still almost pulled the ball out to make a play.

The 3 yard slant? Really? Come on man.. He was tight on that coverage too, and if the WR makes the catch it's a 4 yard gain.

You're just being finicky with Hall, and it's the other side of the field we have to worry about more then Hall. Hall can't make all the plays,and he's not the guy who is going to lock down every play and every WR in the game today, but he's a good corner and I support him.

Our opinions wont change, so i'm going to agree to disagree. The guy won 2 games for us last year, and i'm glad he's a Redskin

The quick slant is one of the most important routes in football. A perfectly thrown quick slant will likely get a favorable down and distance at the very least, and it can easily be a 10 yard gain or more. I've seen how Brett Favre raped D's with that pass; it's not something to brush off lightly.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Bucket

You're just picking on the guy lol.. The Evans play was a good throw and play by the offense in which Hall still almost pulled the ball out to make a play.

The 3 yard slant? Really? Come on man.. He was tight on that coverage too, and if the WR makes the catch it's a 4 yard gain.

You're just being finicky with Hall, and it's the other side of the field we have to worry about more then Hall. Hall can't make all the plays,and he's not the guy who is going to lock down every play and every WR in the game today, but he's a good corner and I support him.

Our opinions wont change, so i'm going to agree to disagree. The guy won 2 games for us last year, and i'm glad he's a Redskin

The Hall bashing is really humorous on this board. Truth is, we see the other corners play a fraction of the time we see our guys week in and week out. So it's quite easy to take a handful of plays from the highlight reel or during the playoffs, when we see the other corners play nationally, and conclude they are head and shoulders above what we have. All corners give up big plays and miss tackles.

I'm not taking anything from from the other so called elite corners, but it seems we're nit-picking here. D.Hall had 95 tackles, 2 forced fumbles and six picks last year, and 16 defended passes. There are a lot of ways we could parse those stats and come to different conclusions, but given the front seven Hall playing in front of him last season and the plays he made, I'd still take him over the majority of cornerbacks in this league.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

The Hall bashing is really humorous on this board. Truth is, we see the other corners play a fraction of the time we see our guys week in and week out. So it's quite easy to take a handful of plays from the highlight reel or during the playoffs, when we see the other corners play nationally, and conclude they are heads and shoulders above what we have. All corners give up big plays and miss tackles.

I'm not taking anything from from the other so called elite corners, but it seems we're nit-picking here. D.Hall had 95 tackles, 2 forced fumbles and six picks last year, and 16 defended passes. There are a lot of ways we could parse those stats and come to different conclusions, but given the front seven Hall playing in front of him last season and the plays he made, I'd still take him over the majority of cornerbacks in this league.

Cornerback is one of the positions where stats are absolutely terrible at describing performance. Good coverage usually results in no stats being accrued.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

On Hall's tackling, as others have mentioned, this is just an example, if you really watch the games closely or look at a DVR'd game....well let's just say the "eye in the sky don't lie".

Here is my problem with Hall and fans that support his play. Hall gives up far more plays than he makes, but the ones he makes are INTs and are what people remember from the game.
They don't remember:
- the 14 yds easy completion to Evans where hall wasn't within 2 yds of him
- or the 3 & 4 slant where Hall was abused, but fortunately the WR dropped
- or the whip route that Boldin abused Hall on for a first
- or the weak tackle effort from Hall on Boldin on the Otagwe blown coverage
- or the TD where Evans just blew by our #1 "speed" corner who couldn't recover and made no play on the ball
....and that was in 1 half without me really looking a Hall's tackling (I know he missed at least one other tackle)

Yes the INT for TD was a good play, but is it worth 2 first downs (a 3rd was dropped) to keep drives alive, plus a TD....I don't think so. Trust me on this, no OC fears Hall. On the contrary, OCs look to take advantage of Hall and for the most part they are successful.

Wow interesting break down. All the players make mistakes so why are we bashing Hall? Does he take chances? yes and apparently thats why MS and Haslett like him otherwise he would be gone. Did he screw up on the TD pass and not turn around and either intercept or atleast bat the ball away.... yes he screwed up. I'm sure after watching film he will correct the problem. and yes he was giving players a cushion. why? I don't know... maybe it's by design of the scheme in order to take away something the offense was wanting to do and force them to go shorter to an underneith route? I don't know.

But if we are going to bash Hall then you might as well start bashing all the DL who let the Ravens RB's get 1st downs. So now we need not only a better CB but better DL. I'm also sure some LB's could be replaced as well who were out of position or failed to tackle also.

How soon we forget the tackle he made on a RB alot bigger then him in the Steelers game to keep them from getting a 1st down.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Wow interesting break down. All the players make mistakes so why are we bashing Hall? Does he take chances? yes and apparently thats why MS and Haslett like him otherwise he would be gone. Did he screw up on the TD pass and not turn around and either intercept or atleast bat the ball away.... yes he screwed up. I'm sure after watching film he will correct the problem. and yes he was giving players a cushion. why? I don't know... maybe it's by design of the scheme in order to take away something the offense was wanting to do and force them to go shorter to an underneith route? I don't know.

But if we are going to bash Hall then you might as well start bashing all the DL who let the Ravens RB's get 1st downs. So now we need not only a better CB but better DL. I'm also sure some LB's could be replaced as well who were out of position or failed to tackle also.

How soon we forget the tackle he made on a RB alot bigger then him in the Steelers game to keep them from getting a 1st down.

The ultimate goal of the D is to prevent the opponent from scoring touchdowns. The D is going to force more punts and FGs than pick 6s. Hence, the need for Hall to bring more balance into his play. Hall's like a offensive Dman in hockey, always going for the sexy play will result in some embarassing moments where the opponent scores.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

The ultimate goal of the D is to prevent the opponent from scoring touchdowns. The D is going to force more punts and FGs than pick 6s. Hence, the need for Hall to bring more balance into his play. Hall's like a offensive Dman in hockey, always going for the sexy play will result in some embarassing moments where the opponent scores.

Ok, I see your point. This whole defense centers around Hall. Forget the whole other side of the field. If there is a TD then it's all Halls fault. Come on man..... in the first game it was the Safeties who were screwing up but not a word. Hall screws up and we need to replace him because he sucks.

I'm sorry he gets a pass from me. It doesn't matter when it came during the game to me yes he gave up a TD but he redeemed himself by getting a TD also. It's a wash for me. Lets get over it and move on.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Wow interesting break down. All the players make mistakes so why are we bashing Hall? Does he take chances? yes and apparently thats why MS and Haslett like him otherwise he would be gone. Did he screw up on the TD pass and not turn around and either intercept or atleast bat the ball away.... yes he screwed up. I'm sure after watching film he will correct the problem. and yes he was giving players a cushion. why? I don't know... maybe it's by design of the scheme in order to take away something the offense was wanting to do and force them to go shorter to an underneith route? I don't know.

Not bashing Hall, he's a Skin, I want him to do well. I've also complimented him on his play (when its deserved). I'm just pointing out the reality of who he is. He's a playmaker when opportunities present themselves, but he gives up an inordinant amount of plays that don't show up in the stat line, but do show up upon a good look at the game.

Ask yourself this, take away the 4 INT performace against Cutler & the Bears, are you willing to have 2 INT & 2 FF over 15 games vs. giving up the number of plays Hall does game-in game-out? To me it's not worth it, but we don't have a better option right now.

I'll take less spectacular plays in favor of solid coverage and sure tackling. In a nutshell, when $$$, cap, contract are no consideration, I take Carlos Rogers over Hall (I wish we could've taken the best of both and combine them into one very good CB). We are thin at CB, unfortunately Hall is the best we have. Hopefully Barnes and Wilson develop and we can get some help next off-season.

[SFREDSKIN]

DeAngelo Hall’s Contract Might Prove To Be The End Of Carlos Rogers’ Time In Washington

Furthermore, the presence of another hefty contract is hurting Rogers’ chances at landing a big payday in Washington. DeAngelo Hall is currently entering the third year of a six-year deal worth up to $55 million.

After signing an eight-year, $72 million contract in Oakland, Hall was released by the Raiders just eight games into the 2008 campaign. The Redskins inked him to a one-year deal and he managed to turn that near tryout-like stint into a big contract.

The former Virginia Tech standout has been an enigmatic player whose merits often fail to outweigh his lapses in coverage. Hall has 12 interceptions and a pair of forced fumbles in 36 games, but misses too many tackles and tends to get caught gambling. You can debate as to whether or not he is a good corner, but one thing is unquestionable in my mind: Hall was never worth the money Washington paid him after half a season of work in 2008.

Hall is a high risk, high reward player and his impact can swing the outcome of a game in either direction. He’s certainly worth having on the roster, but not at such a high price. His contract is a classic case of the Redskins overpaying for a player with a reputation for being a headcase.

Secondly, Hall’s deal gives Rogers leverage in the negotiation process. If Hall can make $55 million and struggle in coverage, then why can’t Rogers drop a few picks yet demand similar money?

[That Guy]

its not one incident with D Hall, though feel free to scour the youtube for highlights of his awesome tackling.

I'm with SS33 on this, he speaks 100% truth here I agree with his description and his CB wishlist.

[Bucket]

95 tackles last year..

Man I could only imagine what a good tackler would of had in his place.. Like 200? Who needs London Fletcher.. Let's just draft some better tackling CB's.

[53Fan]

My opinion of Hall's tackling is far from being based on one incident...am I suppose to list them all? He's a great playmaker...always has been since high school. But he has cost his teams some games by taking chances too. That's not an opinion...that's a fact. I see nothing wrong with seeing a players weaknesses as well as his strengths. He has both.