Smoot Lays the Smack Down (Redskins vs. Ravens)

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I can't speak to Gtripp's personal issue or possible hatred against Hall.....however he is right that Hall does put himself before team in his on field play.

I'm not even referring to the incident after the TD. You are 100% correct, Hall is a great playmaker.....however he also gives up a great deal of plays too and is a poor tackler. Nothing has changed with Hall over the years, he is who he is. Unfortunately we're a bit thin at CB and Hall is our # 1.

I think this is correct, but we're not talking about a situation like TO or Randy Moss at their worst. Honestly, I wish his attitude would change, but you have to trust Mike Shanahan's ability to keep the team disciplined. My thinking is if Shanahan doesn't think it is an issue, then it isn't an issue.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

That was one situation. It's like me saying that Cofield is weak b/c Ricky Williams knocked him down at the Ravens game. I do think is a bit ridiculous to call him a great tackler, but I wouldn't sub-par either. In 2010 he had 95 tackles, that was 3rd in the team behind London and Rocky.

That was more of an indictment of our terrible DL in 2010 rather than a display of Hall's superior tackling.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

That was more of an indictment of our terrible DL in 2010 rather than a display of Hall's superior tackling.

And I never said he was a superior tackler, but I would imagine that you can't be a piss poor tackler and be third in tackles on any team.

[Bucket]

95 tackles last year..

Man I could only imagine what a good tackler would of had in his place.. Like 200? Who needs London Fletcher.. Let's just draft some better tackling CB's.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Bucket

You can't label someone something because of one incident, that's totally ludicrous. Hall tackles well for a cornerback and he is what he is. He'll give up plays trying to make big ones, but most of the time he makes more plays then he gives up. He was 3rd ont he team in tackles last year with almost 100 tackles.

On Hall's tackling, as others have mentioned, this is just an example, if you really watch the games closely or look at a DVR'd game....well let's just say the "eye in the sky don't lie".

Here is my problem with Hall and fans that support his play. Hall gives up far more plays than he makes, but the ones he makes are INTs and are what people remember from the game.
They don't remember:
- the 14 yds easy completion to Evans where hall wasn't within 2 yds of him
- or the 3 & 4 slant where Hall was abused, but fortunately the WR dropped
- or the whip route that Boldin abused Hall on for a first
- or the weak tackle effort from Hall on Boldin on the Otagwe blown coverage
- or the TD where Evans just blew by our #1 "speed" corner who couldn't recover and made no play on the ball
....and that was in 1 half without me really looking a Hall's tackling (I know he missed at least one other tackle)

Yes the INT for TD was a good play, but is it worth 2 first downs (a 3rd was dropped) to keep drives alive, plus a TD....I don't think so. Trust me on this, no OC fears Hall. On the contrary, OCs look to take advantage of Hall and for the most part they are successful.

[53Fan]

My opinion of Hall's tackling is far from being based on one incident...am I suppose to list them all? He's a great playmaker...always has been since high school. But he has cost his teams some games by taking chances too. That's not an opinion...that's a fact. I see nothing wrong with seeing a players weaknesses as well as his strengths. He has both.

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by rbanerjee23

You know what else is a game-changer? giving up TDs to the opposing offense because you're more busy looking to score on defense than play good defense. I would much rather DHall focus more on coverage and less on TDs. Asomugha, Revis, Sharper, etc. are great CBs because they take the opposing WR out of the game, not because they score touchdowns.

Hall is what he is, a player that takes risks....sometimes he wins, sometime he loses. TBH I'd like to see a more complete player, if I were coaching him I would do so accordingly.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I'd take these before Hall, any day of the week and twice on Sunday:

Nnamdi, Woodson, Revis, McCourty, A. Samuel, DRC, T. Newman, Jammer, Grimes (ATL), P. Peterson, Trufant, Champ, B. Flowers, Finnegan, R. Mathis, Taylor & McFadden (PIT), Haden,

Probably would take V. Davis, C. Rogers (yes, I said it). and a few others too.

Hall isn't a "shut-down" corner. Hall makes plays, but gives up a ton of plays that more solid CBs don't give up.

T.Newman is a very good corner..but I'd still take Hall over him. I'll give you Woodson, Ndamdi, Revis, and A.Samuel...and maybe Champ. I think Hall is in the pack with the rest of those guys.

In almost every case you mentioned those teams had at least one Pro-Bowler, if not two, rushing the QB. Huge difference.

[GTripp0012]

Flat out fact: if Chris Horton gets beaten in deep coverage by Lee Evans, then shamelessly stays on the field illegally with the idea that they'll have to go challenge the play if he protests it, Chris Horton gets released the next morning. Period. End of story.

Defensive "leaders" like Hall do get a bit more room for that, but we're really talking about 20% of NFL defensive players who won't get released instantly for pulling a selfish stunt. Whether or not your opinion of Hall is that he's one of the best 20% of defensive players in football, it's clear that the term to describe this is preferential treatment. If your defense of Hall is that he's earned preferential treatment, fine, my argument ends at that point. But let us at least call it what it is.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

T.Newman is a very good corner..but I'd still take Hall over him. I'll give you Woodson, Ndamdi, Revis, and A.Samuel...and maybe Champ. I think Hall is in the pack with the rest of those guys.

In almost every case you mentioned those teams had at least one Pro-Bowler, if not two, rushing the QB. Huge difference.

You'd take Hall over Brandon Flowers, given the choice?

Well, at least you're not guilty of a pro-VT bias.

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

On Hall's tackling, as others have mentioned, this is just an example, if you really watch the games closely or look at a DVR'd game....well let's just say the "eye in the sky don't lie".

Here is my problem with Hall and fans that support his play. Hall gives up far more plays than he makes, but the ones he makes are INTs and are what people remember from the game.
They don't remember:
- the 14 yds easy completion to Evans where hall wasn't within 2 yds of him
- or the 3 & 4 slant where Hall was abused, but fortunately the WR dropped
- or the whip route that Boldin abused Hall on for a first
- or the weak tackle effort from Hall on Boldin on the Otagwe blown coverage
- or the TD where Evans just blew by our #1 "speed" corner who couldn't recover and made no play on the ball
....and that was in 1 half without me really looking a Hall's tackling (I know he missed at least one other tackle)

Yes the INT for TD was a good play, but is it worth 2 first downs (a 3rd was dropped) to keep drives alive, plus a TD....I don't think so. Trust me on this, no OC fears Hall. On the contrary, OCs look to take advantage of Hall and for the most part they are successful.

You're just picking on the guy lol.. The Evans play was a good throw and play by the offense in which Hall still almost pulled the ball out to make a play.

The 3 yard slant? Really? Come on man.. He was tight on that coverage too, and if the WR makes the catch it's a 4 yard gain.

You're just being finicky with Hall, and it's the other side of the field we have to worry about more then Hall. Hall can't make all the plays,and he's not the guy who is going to lock down every play and every WR in the game today, but he's a good corner and I support him.

Our opinions wont change, so i'm going to agree to disagree. The guy won 2 games for us last year, and i'm glad he's a Redskin

[Bucket]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Flat out fact: if Chris Horton gets beaten in deep coverage by Lee Evans, then shamelessly stays on the field illegally with the idea that they'll have to go challenge the play if he protests it, Chris Horton gets released the next morning. Period. End of story.

Defensive "leaders" like Hall do get a bit more room for that, but we're really talking about 20% of NFL defensive players who won't get released instantly for pulling a selfish stunt. Whether or not your opinion of Hall is that he's one of the best 20% of defensive players in football, it's clear that the term to describe this is preferential treatment. If your defense of Hall is that he's earned preferential treatment, fine, my argument ends at that point. But let us at least call it what it is.

How can you call that a fact if it's never happen? You don't know what would happen if this was to occur. You guys are just picking on a guy who goes out and try's to make plays every game. This is the kinda defense Haslett wants and if you want to blame someone for this then blame him.

Facts.... LOL, That's like me saying..

FACT!!! John Beck would win the NFL MVP if he completed 50% of his passes this year

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Finally had a chance to review the game. Hopefully this is a preview of a weekly SS33 Game Review.

OL - Huge improvement from last year. Familiarity with the ZB scheme is helping the guys from last year. I finally saw an important component of the ZB scheme that was missing last year.....the cut blocks. On the Hightower TD, the cut from KL took down two Ravens and opened the cutback lane. I specifically saw good two good cuts by TW and another by KL. Didn't notice any from Brown/Chester, but hope they're coming.

Monty at C, without bashing ol' turnstile Rabach for a paragraph, let's just say Monty is a huge upgrade at C. The only bad play from him was a mis-communication between him and Chester that allowed the DT to shoot the A gap and blow up a run. Monty went 2nd level too early and Chester couldn't reach the DT.

Pass-pro is much improved. Not seeing the OL getting beaten with a 4 or 5 man rush. The OL is getting at worst a stalemate in pass-pro, which is a win and big improvement from last year where our OL were not only doing a poor job of blitz pick-up, but were losing individual battles.

Blitz Pick-up - An area that needs work, but with new players at C, RG, RB and TE this should improve and is an area that can be "coached up". TW has to get better at reading overload C-gap pressure and stay home rather than get sucked down to the B gap. Brown and Chester need to improve communication in passing the rushers between them. The blitz pick-up appears to be more of an issue on Brown's side. Hopefully by game 4-5 Brown, Chester and the backs/Davis will have settled in.

Davis is much improved in blocking and appears to be taking pride in this effort here. He still has work to do in blitz pick-up, but the run blocking appears to be coming along well and he's showing "want-to".

DL - Very pleased here. Cofield is showing why he was the most improtant off-season acquisition. He holds his ground in the run game and creates pressure in the pass game. The base 3-4 rush and 4-man front are getting pressure without needing blitz support....huge improvement from last year. I really like the even front with Rak and Kerrigan off the edges and Cofield and possibly Carriker/Bowen/Scott (JJ loss is awful, overall we'll be fine but he was a pleasant surprise).

Not real happy with Bowen's pre-snap stance (I get in a similar stance in the early AM), but he's doing his job so far.

I think Scott earned himself a roster spot with his versatility and effort. He created good pressure in pass rush and held up well in the run game overall.

More later....

[SmootSmack]

You should make it a weekly feature. Your game reviews are the best I've seen on any message board and as good as many professional ones I've seen, and you don't have the same access to film they do

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by Bucket

You're just picking on the guy lol.. The Evans play was a good throw and play by the offense in which Hall still almost pulled the ball out to make a play.

The 3 yard slant? Really? Come on man.. He was tight on that coverage too, and if the WR makes the catch it's a 4 yard gain.

You're just being finicky with Hall, and it's the other side of the field we have to worry about more then Hall. Hall can't make all the plays,and he's not the guy who is going to lock down every play and every WR in the game today, but he's a good corner and I support him.

Our opinions wont change, so i'm going to agree to disagree. The guy won 2 games for us last year, and i'm glad he's a Redskin

The quick slant is one of the most important routes in football. A perfectly thrown quick slant will likely get a favorable down and distance at the very least, and it can easily be a 10 yard gain or more. I've seen how Brett Favre raped D's with that pass; it's not something to brush off lightly.