Peyton Manning or RGIII your choice

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SirClintonPortis

All you have done is highlighted yet another example of the equivocation fallacy.

Call it intentional.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Franchise quarterbacks are fun. Until 2012 happens, Alex Smith both is and is not a franchise quarterback, depending on the argument you are trying to make. And even better, you don't have to believe one or the other. You can just use the term or reject the term as it suits you.

For these reasons you'll see that I avoid the term "franchise QB" whenever possible and instead use adjectives describing QB quality or longevity.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Lotus

For these reasons you'll see that I avoid the term "franchise QB" whenever possible and instead use adjectives describing QB quality or longevity.

I'm typically a bit more careless with my words (there is a lot of them after all) but I agree that to expect people to use loaded terms less often, it helps to set a strong example.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

If you can't discuss intelligently, go to ES. We keep hearing you repeat that you believe the Skins should take the risk and trade up for Griffin, but you're not giving one iota of logical reasoning as to why that direction makes the team better than acquiring Manning in free agency.

I gotta better idea. If you don't like what I post put me on your ignore list that way you don't have to read it and I don't have to see your pathetic attempt to be an asshole. So everybody wins.

[warriorzpath]

I am really on the fence with both because- going by history- picking up a free agent franchise quarterback is really a longshot. I know the circumstances with Manning is different but whatever the reason the colts feel that their team and organization is better off without Manning (and his contract) which is just like any other player that gets cut.

But really this thread shouldn't be an either-or choice. I think whether or not the redskins are able to get Manning through free agency- they should really invest a high draft pick (preferably a 1st rounder) in a qb. Because- going by history again- a majority of the "franchise" qbs are obtained through the draft or get on a team very early on in their career and they develop as the team gets better too. Bottom line: it would seem to be a better option to try to find a franchise qb in the draft rather than pick up an aging franchise qb that was thrown or given away by another team.

What I'm really on the fence about though- is whether RGIII is worth giving up something like 2 1st rounders and 2 2nd rounders for. If he's definitely a franchise qb then hell yeah but we all know that the draft is one big crapshoot. And giving up those draft picks is like losing 4 potential playmakers - like 2 Ryan Kerrigans and 2 Jarvis Jenkins on the team.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

Ok Vinny. I'm glad you don't run this team anymore either. How's the job search coming along?

Pretty good. I'm a manager at a Gamestop now, doesn't pay as much as Genreal Manager does but I still get the bills paid.

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

Pretty good. I'm a manager at a Gamestop now, doesn't pay as much as Genreal Manager does but I still get the bills paid.

I imagine you are 100x better at your job than that fool was. That counts for something.

[NC_Skins]

..and for the record, I'm a huge fan of RGIII and would love him to be in the B&G. That said, it's not the best move for the future of this team to sell the farm to get him. Nobody wants a franchise QB more than me. I've had to watch guys like Bradshaw, Montana, Young, Elway, Manning, Brady all come in this league and tear it up while our team struggled year after year for the past 20 years. It sucks, but we have to stop doing business the fools way. The reason Vinny was so shitty at his job wasn't because he didn't know football or personnel, it was because he took too many chances. He gambled the OL's health would stay up. He gambled those big time FA would make a impact. He gambled trading those picks would pan out with veteran acquisitions. He gambled on high risk draft picks. Our fans seriously need a detoxing of this poisonous culture that jerkoff created. We long to have a guy like Bill Belicheck here, but we shun the method he uses to build a team. Ironic to say the least.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by NC_Skins

I imagine you are 100x better at your job than that fool was. That counts for something.

Lol true, and for the record I see why people don't wanna trade up for RGIII. Am I gonna turn in my fan card if we sign Manning, draft Blackmon and Foles? No. Just from my stance RGIII will be the best player in this draft down the road in my opinion. But I never said we should go Ditka for him. I still think he could be there at 6. All it takes is an average combine from him and someone like Riley Reiff or Dre Kirkpatrick wowing the scouts.

[WestCoastSkinsFan]

I'm in with a healthy Peyton Manning. More building through the draft.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

You wanna blame anyone for these arguments and threads: Matt Barkley.

If not for him it would be a guarantee that we would have either him or RGIII and wouldn't have to worry about trades. Now there's a guy I hope busts.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

Let's have a direct discussion. If you're the Redskins who do you pick?

Redskins must choose between Manning, Griffin - Rich Tandler's Real Redskins

Peyton Manning.

I love Robert Griffin as a prospect but for me the difference between drafting him @6 as opposed to giving up the amount of resources Tandler suggests (2 firsts, a second and possibly more) is a deal breaker for me.

With Griffin the gamble is the same as with any rookie QB where historically the success rate is right around 50/50 its even lower when using the 'franchise' QB or 'elite' QB label as the measure of success.

The gamble with Peyton Manning is much lower.
Its not a question of whether or not he'll 'become' a franchise or elite QB, he already has proven that he is elite.
The only question about Peyton is a health question.
I guess for me it boils down to the probablity of Peyton Manning being healthy vs probability of a rookie QB reaching 'franchise' or 'elite' status.

Further the risk of Peyton Manning can be mitigated by signing a journeyman QB and drafting a later round developmental QB.
And Manning reduces the urgency to have a QB of the future ready to play this year.
Peyton Manning buys time to either develop a mid/late round QB over time or to wait a year or a few before drafting the next Luck or Griffin in 2014 or 2015.

[biffle]

Originally Posted by 30gut

With Griffin the gamble is the same as with any rookie QB where historically the success rate is right around 50/50 its even lower when using the 'franchise' QB or 'elite' QB label as the measure of success.

The real world doesn't work that way. Griffin has virtually nothing in common with Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell, whether you're looking at backgrounds, education, skillset, production, character or temperments. Not to mention, Griffin will be stepping into a situation that will likely bear little resemblence to what the other 2 walked into.

So, to suggest the former's chances of success decline by some percentage because of the failures of the latter two is really wrongheaded, at absolute best.

[SirClintonPortis]

Originally Posted by biffle

The real world doesn't work that way. Griffin has virtually nothing in common with Ryan Leaf or Jamarcus Russell, whether you're looking at backgrounds, education, skillset, production, character or temperments. Not to mention, Griffin will be stepping into a situation that will likely bear little resemblence to what the other 2 walked into.

So, to suggest the former's chances of success decline by some percentage because of the failures of the latter two is really wrongheaded, at absolute best.

Ah, conditional probability. How I did not expect to see you here. (nerd moment)

[30gut]

Where did I suggest Griffin chances of success decline?

I also missed the part of my post where I made any comparison of Griffin to Leaf or Jamarcus?

I'll chalk it up to an honest mistake.

Cheers-