Redskins, Cowboys could go “nuclear” over cap mess

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by mbedner3420

It'd be awesome if we get some high round draft picks as compensation.

i suggested this before myself... but i dont think its a realistic option. it would be entirely unprecedented. however, i feel it could be warranted. the big names in free agency are all gone. we could easily argue that we would have gone after mario williams, peyton manning, vincent jackson, winston, etc. but were unable to do so because of wrongful cap penalty. it also could have prevented our ability to retain landry (not like we really wanted to). at this point, we cant replace the players we could have signed, so all they could do would be give us draft picks, and we could only get players like that in the 1st round. of course, theres no evidence any of those players would have signed with us, so thats highly unlikely.

In the end, i think a fair resolution would be to waive the 18MM hit next year and give us some sort of cap credit (maybe not the full 18MM from this year, but something), along with possible compensatory picks in the 3rd round and beyond in 2013. given these are given to teams who lose free agents, this is somewhat of a comparable situation, as we lost our ability to get free agents due to wrongful penalties.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by NYCskinfan82

An arbitration situation? - Rich Tandler's Real Redskins

Another plan of attack.

I've been hoping we were using the Saber rattling as a bargaining chip to get our stuff (or at least some) back.
The Dan and JJ have the two most valuable franchises in the NFL. They are....shrewd self made Billionaire guys. Very accustomed to difficult problems and negotiations. I do not see them letting this slide........

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Hog1

I've been hoping we were using the Saber rattling as a bargaining chip to get our stuff (or at least some) back.
The Dan and JJ have the two most valuable franchises in the NFL. They are....shrewd self made Billionaire guys. Very accustomed to difficult problems and negotiations. I do not see them letting this slide........

Each side has some strong negotiating chips.

- The DS & JJ's position is, essentially, we did nothing wrong and your punishment violates the rules of our business agreeement. Ultimately, in any legal battle we will win and we have the money and the will to take you to the mat.

- The other 30 owner's & the NFL's position: Maybe so, but until a court tells us to do otherwise, we are disapproving any contracts over the penalized amount. Further, we will take away draft choices, look for other infractions, etc. By the way, we have 400 lawyers who can make sure this doesn't see the inside of a court room for several years ... and then let's talk us some appellate review.

Ultimately, arbitration is the best course. I am pretty sure we will end up with a "time served" sanction (i.e. - acceptance of what's been done with a removal of the rest. Possibly a small credit to allow us to go forward w/out needing to push this years money into future caps). I can't see an arbitrated settlement that nets us draft picks. It would be nice, but I wouldn't bank on it. Even if it does, I doubt it would be anything more than a 6th or 7th round pick, maybe two (pure speculation on my part).

[Evilgrin]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Each side has some strong negotiating chips.

- The DS & JJ's position is, essentially, we did nothing wrong and your punishment violates the rules of our business agreeement. Ultimately, in any legal battle we will win and we have the money and the will to take you to the mat.

- The other 30 owner's & the NFL's position: Maybe so, but until a court tells us to do otherwise, we are disapproving any contracts over the penalized amount. Further, we will take away draft choices, look for other infractions, etc. By the way, we have 400 lawyers who can make sure this doesn't see the inside of a court room for several years ... and then let's talk us some appellate review.

Ultimately, arbitration is the best course. I am pretty sure we will end up with a "time served" sanction (i.e. - acceptance of what's been done with a removal of the rest. Possibly a small credit to allow us to go forward w/out needing to push this years money into future caps). I can't see an arbitrated settlement that nets us draft picks. It would be nice, but I wouldn't bank on it. Even if it does, I doubt it would be anything more than a 6th or 7th round pick, maybe two (pure speculation on my part).

If the league sticks to the "because we say so" arguement, arbitration seems a bit silly. And the chance of it being fairly considered? How do they pick the person who hears the case?

I think in addtion to good chances in a legal battle, the skins and cowboys also have the NFL not wanting any of this to take place in public. Trying to talk the crazy guy back off the cliff.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Evilgrin

If the league sticks to the "because we say so" arguement, arbitration seems a bit silly. And the chance of it being fairly considered? How do they pick the person who hears the case?

I think in addtion to good chances in a legal battle, the skins and cowboys also have the NFL not wanting any of this to take place in public. Trying to talk the crazy guy back off the cliff.

In arbitration the league will advance a couple of legal theories as to why the sanction should be upheld:

1. Since we [the owners] believed a new CBA was forthcoming that would reinstate the salary cap, the majority of owners reached an informal agreement not to structure contracts in a manner that would harm the competitive balance going forward. DS and JJ violated this agreement and attempted to gain a competitive advantage contrary to the spirit of the governing CBA which, by its terms, created only one uncapped year [Of course, if no subsequent CBA had been agreed upon, the cap would simply disappear going forward] .

2. As a procedural matter, pursuant to the NFL's charter, the sanction was issued by the competition committee and communicated through the Commissioner's office. Further, and because it affects the salary cap, the sanction has been approved by the NFLPA as required by the current governing CBA.

These are both legally defensible positions that create the appearance of a reasonable dispute (barely so in my humble opinion). For all the reasons I have stated before, I just don't think they stand up under any scrutiny.

The "b/c we say so" argument is the practical and informal reason for their actions rather than the legal basis.

As to who hears the arbitration, from what I understand, that would be governed by the CBA.

[biffle]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

- The other 30 owner's & the NFL's position: Maybe so, but until a court tells us to do otherwise, we are disapproving any contracts over the penalized amount. Further, we will take away draft choices, look for other infractions, etc. By the way, we have 400 lawyers who can make sure this doesn't see the inside of a court room for several years ... and then let's talk us some appellate review.

But I would think it's almost 100% that a judge would issue an injunction against that penalty until it sees trial.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Each side has some strong negotiating chips.

- The DS & JJ's position is, essentially, we did nothing wrong and your punishment violates the rules of our business agreeement. Ultimately, in any legal battle we will win and we have the money and the will to take you to the mat.

- The other 30 owner's & the NFL's position: Maybe so, but until a court tells us to do otherwise, we are disapproving any contracts over the penalized amount. Further, we will take away draft choices, look for other infractions, etc. By the way, we have 400 lawyers who can make sure this doesn't see the inside of a court room for several years ... and then let's talk us some appellate review.

Ultimately, arbitration is the best course. I am pretty sure we will end up with a "time served" sanction (i.e. - acceptance of what's been done with a removal of the rest. Possibly a small credit to allow us to go forward w/out needing to push this years money into future caps). I can't see an arbitrated settlement that nets us draft picks. It would be nice, but I wouldn't bank on it. Even if it does, I doubt it would be anything more than a 6th or 7th round pick, maybe two (pure speculation on my part).

I imagine you are correct. I really cannot see the NFL doing an "about face" completely on the issue as it might cast the NFL in a unfavorable light. The time served analogy makes sense to me as it allows all to win.....some and no Crawfishin' done by either side..

[Dirtbag59]

Galvanize aka "My finger is on the button." *push the button*

[BuckSkin]

Mark Maske, to whom GiantOne refers, says that individuals familiar to the situation suggest...
"Stephen Burbank, the University of Pennsylvania law professor who was known as the sport’s special master when previous labor agreements were under the jurisdiction of a federal court in Minneapolis."

[BuckSkin]

My head feels like I ate a quart of ice cream really fast after reading that. [ note to self; never argue with JoeRedskin] Sir, that is truly impressive.

[FRPLG]

Man Joe is humming now. I am going stop posting on this since I am absolutely an idiot in comparison to JR

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Man Joe is humming now. I am going stop posting on this since I am absolutely an idiot in comparison to JR

Comments like this only feed the beast :cheeky-smil

[Paintrain]

If it goes to arbitration, I hope the Redskins ask for removal of the balance of the $18 million for next year and a compensatory pick at the end of the 2nd round this year to compensate for our inability to utilize the cap space we were entitled to.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

If it goes to arbitration, I hope the Redskins ask for removal of the balance of the $18 million for next year and a compensatory pick at the end of the 2nd round this year to compensate for our inability to utilize the cap space we were entitled to.

I'd take that.


I still hate that the other teams involved in the collusion still end up with a $1.6 million REWARD for their illegal activity, or at least going along with the league's crimes.

[JoeRedskin]

Keep feeding the beast GiantOne. I am hungry and I am on a roll.