A Clarification on whether the Redskins are Re-Building

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I will take a core of 2 strong OLBs a young LT and a potential franchise QB. Add in a potential DT in Jenkins, and some young RBs and I would say that as a nucleus it would be a very good one.

I'll say this: if you're going to plant your core at four positions on the field and build around that, those are four pretty good positions to pick.

It's just a small core, that's all. I mean, look at Kansas City, a possible landing spot for Tannehill:

2005-Derrick Johnson
2006-Tamba Hali
2007-Dwayne Bowe
2008-Glenn Dorsey, Branden Albert, Brandon Flowers, Jamaal Charles
2009-Tyson Jackson
2010-Eric Berry
2011-Jon Baldwin
2012-Tannehill?

They ran the personnel guy who built the first half of that out of town, kind of like we did with Vinny.

Johnson and Hali are 29 and in their primes, but that's a team that would become the dominant team in the west if it fixed it's QB issue. If you add RG3 to that? You wouldn't care about not picking in the next two rounds. That core is massive.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think winning the SB still validates your belief in the current QB. We saw it happen w/Eli a few years back: if the 49ers win the SB next year, they'll be front and center calling out people who called Alex Smith a bust.

True. But the only QBs in whom we believe are SB winners are those taken at the top of the draft. Eli validated the belief.

Hence Griffin. QBs with that much promise give hope by offering the legit shot at it.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

True. But the only QBs in whom we believe are SB winners are those taken at the top of the draft. Eli validated the belief.

Hence Griffin. QBs with that much promise give hope by offering the legit shot at it.

I mean, T.J. Yates was never plan A, but he was taken in the 6th round last year, and ended up quarterbacking the pound-for-pound best team last year as a rookie. Odds were always going to be against him to win the whole thing, but all the Texans needed was a guy who would be pushing in the right direction at the quarterback position. And there are more than 32 guys like that in the league.

The Redskins, however, cannot get to where the Texans were simply by having Griffin push the team in the right direction. He is the team. Already.

I don't think the Redskins deserve to be ridiculed for making what was a very defensible trade. But by calling this trade a "loss" for the Redskins FO, we can separate Griffin from the expectations that 3 first round picks and a second would normally create. If we can accept that the Redskins got worse in this deal, I think we can judge RG3 in comparison to all highly drafted NFL quarterbacks, instead of the player who returned the greatest compensation in the last 12 NFL seasons.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

I would add Fred Davis to our "core" young talent. Hankerson/Helu/Royster showed flashes on offense as did Perry Riley and Jarvis Jenkins on D. Now if Garcon and Morgan pan out like I think they will, we will be in sexy shape.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by EARTHQUAKE2689

I would add Fred Davis to our "core" young talent. Hankerson/Helu/Royster showed flashes on offense as did Perry Riley and Jarvis Jenkins on D. Now if Garcon and Morgan pan out like I think they will, we will be in sexy shape.

I have no problem with Fred Davis being considered a core player, once they agree to a long-term contract (same with Orakpo).

Hankerson/Helu/Royster are supporting cast guys. And hopefully really good ones. As obviously, are Garcon and Morgan.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I mean, T.J. Yates was never plan A, but he was taken in the 6th round last year, and ended up quarterbacking the pound-for-pound best team last year as a rookie. Odds were always going to be against him to win the whole thing, but all the Texans needed was a guy who would be pushing in the right direction at the quarterback position. And there are more than 32 guys like that in the league.

The Redskins, however, cannot get to where the Texans were simply by having Griffin push the team in the right direction. He is the team. Already.

I don't think the Redskins deserve to be ridiculed for making what was a very defensible trade. But by calling this trade a "loss" for the Redskins FO, we can separate Griffin from the expectations that 3 first round picks and a second would normally create. If we can accept that the Redskins got worse in this deal, I think we can judge RG3 in comparison to all highly drafted NFL quarterbacks, instead of the player who returned the greatest compensation in the last 12 NFL seasons.

Well when Schaub went down so did the hopes of the entire fan base. Nobody truly believed they'd win with TJ Yates. I'm unsure whether Schaub could have gotten it done either, but with Yates, forget it.

I'm not interested in separating Griffin from those expectations. You seem to think those expectations are unreasonably high. Not sure why, everyone who knows something about football seems to think Griffin's one of the best to come out since Manning.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well when Schaub went down so did the hopes of the entire fan base. Nobody truly believed they'd win with TJ Yates. I'm unsure whether Schaub could have gotten it done either, but with Yates, forget it.

I'm not interested in separating Griffin from those expectations. You seem to think those expectations are unreasonably high. Not sure why, everyone who knows something about football seems to think Griffin's one of the best to come out since Manning.

He is, but the guy he's most similar to (Aaron Rodgers) couldn't find a team to take him in the draft and even as recently as 2008, played for a team that drafted a quarterback in the first two rounds because they just didn't know what they had in him.

I mean, it's not unreasonable to believe that as good as RG3 is, that the Redskins find themselves making an educated guess in 2015 on whether to offer him a second contract or move in a different direction. It could have easily happened with the Packers and Rodgers, if the front office that drafted him wasn't still there.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

He is, but the guy he's most similar to (Aaron Rodgers) couldn't find a team to take him in the draft and even as recently as 2008, played for a team that drafted a quarterback in the first two rounds because they just didn't know what they had in him.

I mean, it's not unreasonable to believe that as good as RG3 is, that the Redskins find themselves making an educated guess in 2015 on whether to offer him a second contract or move in a different direction. It could have easily happened with the Packers and Rodgers, if the front office that drafted him wasn't still there.

It's totally unreasonable to believe that. Rodgers sat for two (three?) seasons first, so naturally data was incomplete. RG3 will play immediately (there's certainly no Favre in his way here). They'll have all the info they need to decide on a big contract in 2015.

[EARTHQUAKE2689]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I have no problem with Fred Davis being considered a core player, once they agree to a long-term contract (same with Orakpo).



Hankerson/Helu/Royster are supporting cast guys. And hopefully really good ones. As obviously, are Garcon and Morgan.

If Garcon, Hankerson, or Morgan can give us the production that Santana has given us over the last 7 years they become core pieces to me. Helu showed last year that he can be a 225-250 carry 1,000 yard back if used as a full-time starter. I see Helu cracking 1,000 yards this season.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

It's totally unreasonable to believe that. Rodgers sat for two (three?) seasons first, so naturally data was incomplete. RG3 will play immediately (there's certainly no Favre in his way here). They'll have all the info they need to decide on a big contract in 2015.

I'm saying it's likely that early results will be mixed. If not from snap to snap (like early career Grossman), then from year to year (like early career Josh Freeman).

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'm saying it's likely that early results will be mixed. If not from snap to snap (like early career Grossman), then from year to year (like early career Josh Freeman).

Mixed results due to a surrounding cast as erratic as Freeman's? Or in that RG3's abilities compare to Freeman's?

Because Griffin is light years ahead of where Freeman was coming out.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Mixed results due to a surrounding cast as erratic as Freeman's? Or in that RG3's abilities compare to Freeman's?

Because Griffin is light years ahead of where Freeman was coming out.

The former, most likely.

[SkinItup]

I think we are rebuilt. Shanny has found the team he wanted for the most part. He will more less sink or swim with the players we have going into this year.

[ethat001]

First, it sucks to lose 1st round draft picks, but if RG3 lives up to the hype, it would be worth it. Also, if we get our cap room back, the FAs we could sign could more than make up for the loss of draft picks (which was the plan to begin with before the commish intervened)..

And I agree w previous post -- with this draft, I'd say we already REBUILT.

RG3 fills the most important role, and now we've completed the most important part of our rebuilding process. Everything else is easier and downhill, and we'll continue to improve/rebuild the team - but again, our rebuilding process will peak with the draft this year, and will mostly finish in 2 years.

[REDSKINS4ever]

If the passing game can become explosive, then the Redskins should be able to rack up yardage and points. When was the last time the Redskins had two wide receivers go over 1,000 yards in a season? Michael Wesbrook and Albert Connell way back in 1999. If Garcon and Hankerson can each top 1,000 yards worth of receptions, and if Helu can rush for over 1,000 yards then consider the offense completely fixed.

Giving RG3 the keys to the offense is similar to what Joe Gibbs did with a young Mark Rypien in 1988 and 1989. And if the defense can improve on it 13th place ranking from a season ago, this Redskins team can go very far.

At preseason's end, quite a few NFL analysts were predicting the Redskins to win the NFC east. Well, what will they say this coming season especially when the Redskins have more explosive weapons than a year ago?