Skins v Bengals week 3 preseason thread

[skinsfan69]

Yeah I remember the Osaka days. Ole' ball coach was trying to win the SB in the pre season..

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Yeah I remember the Osaka days. Ole' ball coach was trying to win the SB in the pre season..

We need to create a preseason HOF. Ryan Grant, lets induct him first. Marko Mitchell you're up next.

[JoeRedskin]

Agreed about the value of preseason. However, throughout the Gruden regime, this team has been a slow starter and nothing I have seen this preseason gives me hope that this has changed.

While I fully understand and completely accept that preseason play is absolutely not a reliable way to predict a team's in-season success, and, in fact, it can be incredibly misleading about the same, it is disconcerting to see the lack of crispness in any aspect of the team, particularly as they come out of the gate.

If they had been sharp in the opening series, gotten a first down, maybe hit a nice pass downfield ... sure, preseason is preseason, so, as a starter, you hit a good play, clock it internally as, "okay, got this. Now not going to get injured," and take the rest of the game easy. But ... the starters weren't crisp out of the gate or at any point in the first quarter. In fact, the offense didn't get things together late in the 2nd half when most of the Bengals were probably "don't get hurt" mode.

IMHO, under Gruden, this team rarely comes out of the gate strong and focused. Whether for a single game or the start of the season. It's a disturbing trend and this preseason has done nothing to allay my concern on that particular issue.

I like Gruden. I don't think he's a bad coach. I don't think he coddles players or otherwise refuses to hold them to account. At the same time, I just don't see evidence that he has the "it" factor either. While the players apparently generally like and respect him, I am not impressed by him as a motivator.

In an admittedly unfair comparison (different eras, salary cap, etc.), I think Gruden is on a par with Gibbs as an X's and O's guy. Yes, Gibbs' was an innovator, etc. and has the edge, of course, but Gruden is not a slouch in that department, runs very good schemes, and can come up with creative ways to attack opposing offenses. However, when it comes to adaptability and motivation, and based on what I have seen, Gruden has not shown himself to be in the same class at the very good/great coaches.

Almost from the first game, Gibbs demonstrated an ability to scrap a failing game plan and come up with something on the fly that countered the opposing team's counter to his original plan. Hell, when Gibbs came to the Skins, he was the offensive mind behind Air Coryell and looked to install that offense here. Five games in, he scraps that and becomes a run-first coach behind Riggins. He literally abandoned his offensive philosophy to create a new way of winning with the tools at hand. Throughout his career, he was famous for his halftime adjustments. There are tons of anecdotes of him creating new game plans / counters on the sideline.

I just have never seen that kind of in-game creativity from Gruden.

Then, and more importantly to the slow starts, there was Gibbs the motivator. Players didn't just like and respect Gibbs, they would run through brick walls for him. He KNEW how to make players play their best from the first play to the last.

Again, I just don't see this kind of inspired leadership from Gruden.

He's a solid coach and he has been a winner. It's only year three, so I remain hopeful he will turn the corner on these two skills. Preseason is useless as to judging the first (adaptability) and a limited predictor of the second (motivator), but I just am not seeing anything that makes me confident that improvement is occurring on either front.

[metalskins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I like Gruden. I don't think he's a bad coach. I don't think he coddles players or otherwise refuses to hold them to account. At the same time, I just don't see evidence that he has the "it" factor either. While the players apparently generally like and respect him, I am not impressed by him as a motivator.



Again, I just don't see this kind of inspired leadership from Gruden.

Kind of hard to compare Gruden to a Hall of Fame coach. I think Gruden can be a top tier coach, he just needs the offense and defense to both be good at the same time. I don't know what type of inspired leadership he brings to the table, but players seem to like playing for him. Players commented on how different training camp was this season (meaning better), so maybe he has his own way of motivation that us fans haven't been privy to?

I also think back to those slow starts. The thing is, at some point, those slow starts turned into win streaks and playoff hopes toward the end of those seasons, and I would think a coach lacking in inspiration and leadership would not have been able to survive a slow start in an NFL season.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Agreed about the value of preseason. However, throughout the Gruden regime, this team has been a slow starter and nothing I have seen this preseason gives me hope that this has changed.

While I fully understand and completely accept that preseason play is absolutely not a reliable way to predict a team's in-season success, and, in fact, it can be incredibly misleading about the same, it is disconcerting to see the lack of crispness in any aspect of the team, particularly as they come out of the gate.

If they had been sharp in the opening series, gotten a first down, maybe hit a nice pass downfield ... sure, preseason is preseason, so, as a starter, you hit a good play, clock it internally as, "okay, got this. Now not going to get injured," and take the rest of the game easy. But ... the starters weren't crisp out of the gate or at any point in the first quarter. In fact, the offense didn't get things together late in the 2nd half when most of the Bengals were probably "don't get hurt" mode.

IMHO, under Gruden, this team rarely comes out of the gate strong and focused. Whether for a single game or the start of the season. It's a disturbing trend and this preseason has done nothing to allay my concern on that particular issue.

I like Gruden. I don't think he's a bad coach. I don't think he coddles players or otherwise refuses to hold them to account. At the same time, I just don't see evidence that he has the "it" factor either. While the players apparently generally like and respect him, I am not impressed by him as a motivator.

In an admittedly unfair comparison (different eras, salary cap, etc.), I think Gruden is on a par with Gibbs as an X's and O's guy. Yes, Gibbs' was an innovator, etc. and has the edge, of course, but Gruden is not a slouch in that department, runs very good schemes, and can come up with creative ways to attack opposing offenses. However, when it comes to adaptability and motivation, and based on what I have seen, Gruden has not shown himself to be in the same class at the very good/great coaches.

Almost from the first game, Gibbs demonstrated an ability to scrap a failing game plan and come up with something on the fly that countered the opposing team's counter to his original plan. Hell, when Gibbs came to the Skins, he was the offensive mind behind Air Coryell and looked to install that offense here. Five games in, he scraps that and becomes a run-first coach behind Riggins. He literally abandoned his offensive philosophy to create a new way of winning with the tools at hand. Throughout his career, he was famous for his halftime adjustments. There are tons of anecdotes of him creating new game plans / counters on the sideline.

I just have never seen that kind of in-game creativity from Gruden.

Then, and more importantly to the slow starts, there was Gibbs the motivator. Players didn't just like and respect Gibbs, they would run through brick walls for him. He KNEW how to make players play their best from the first play to the last.

Again, I just don't see this kind of inspired leadership from Gruden.

He's a solid coach and he has been a winner. It's only year three, so I remain hopeful he will turn the corner on these two skills. Preseason is useless as to judging the first (adaptability) and a limited predictor of the second (motivator), but I just am not seeing anything that makes me confident that improvement is occurring on either front.

I would say everything in this post seems to be true.

[skinsfaninok]

Kirk is making the skins look smart, that Pick 6 was awful.. Some of his throws are just horrible at times. He's a good QB but not a top 10 guy.

[OmahaRedskins]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Kirk is making the skins look smart, that Pick 6 was awful.. Some of his throws are just horrible at times. He's a good QB but not a top 10 guy.

Kirk is somewhere between 8 - 14. If he falls below 15, we kept the wrong coach. This is work in progress, we will no what we have in October.

[mooby]

Good post Joe, I agree in that he doesn't seem like the supreme motivator that Gibbs was. I mainly wrote this post to give you the heads up that this is year 4. It seems like we know what we're getting by now.

[Chico23231]

I heard camp was lax here in Richmond and Jay gets along and has fun with a lot of his players. That's great.

Id like to see him get in some faces and motivate a little more.

[FlyerSkin]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

I heard camp was lax here in Richmond and Jay gets along and has fun with a lot of his players. That's great.

Id like to see him get in some faces and motivate a little more.

That isn't good. I remember way back when Sonny was interviewed about the team atmosphere when Norv was coach after he got the boot. He likened it to Club Med. Relaxed is a good thing, totally laid back to the point of seemingly not caring or really not caring is of course rather bad. It pisses me off when you see players laughing their asses off after they lose or screw up badly. On You Tube there are many videos about the '72 Skins first SB team and one starts out with them losing in the playoffs the previous season. You couldn't hear a pin drop in the locker room before Coach Allen tries to cheer them up. Those old school guys wanted to WIN!!!!!! Not sure about these narcissistic brats the universities crank out today. With all the guaranteed $$$$$$, the incentive to win is minimal.

[skinsfan69]

Phil Taylor apparently is out for the year. That is just terrible.

[calia]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Phil Taylor apparently is out for the year. That is just terrible.

Awful. Poor guy. Play didn't look that serious.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Phil Taylor apparently is out for the year. That is just terrible.

fuck. he was the starter.

Waiver wire or maybe we can move somebody ala one of our TEs. The other 2 NT not doing shit.

[calia]

Originally Posted by Chico23231

fuck. he was the starter.

Waiver wire or maybe we can move somebody ala one of our TEs. The other 2 NT not doing shit.

We needed more help on D than O, and to lose Murphy and Taylor for the year is really not good. We have decent depth at TE and CB, but I don't see the front office making a move for a NT, and I doubt there's anyone available now (or will become available) who they will like better than Hood, Mbu or Ionnadis (I am sure I butchered the spelling of that).

[NC_Skins]

Something tells me I'm glad I missed this game.