2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I haven't seen it yet, it's on the DVR for tonight. However, I heard the moderation was absolutely horrible (for both sides). Will the same moderator do all of the debates or do they typically switch it up?

Sounds like Obama dropped this one pretty bad and Mitt came out strong. I have a feeling Ryan will own Biden pretty hard. I'm not a Biden fan at all in general. Seems weird and against net neutrality. Paul Ryan, although I don't agree with many of his stances, seems pretty charismatic and smart.

Actually I think the moderator did a great job. He let them debate and he did not become part of the dabate. I've seen to many debates where the moderator actually becomes part of the debate and that's not their job. Some say he let them go over their time but how do you just cut someone off in the middle of statement. Obama did have 4min more time but that's not bad when your talking about a 90 min debate. Some on the left are blaming the moderator for OBama's poor performance which is BS.

All Ryan need to do is shut up and let Biden do all the talking. He will hang himself.

[MTK]

I managed to yawn my way through most of it, wasn't impressed with either of them. I can see why they requested to keep the room so cold, they were both blowing hot air all night long. Mitt came off a little bitchy and defensive to me, Obama was too passive.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I put it up there so your buudy could read it,it shoots down everything he says.

I was talking about the Chinese Govt, not some random businessmen in Hong Kong. You never even touched on that so please do tell how you could of shot something down that you never even touched on.

Originally Posted by Giantone

First Jr you're kinda late to the party and I know a whle bunch of us don't want to re hash what was said "again" ...months ago,and yes I'm not a liberal ...go back,way back .

I made a comment about China. You came back with a Bain comment. If you dont want to discuss Bain, then dont bring it up. More importantly, dont bring it up then claim that I did. But if you want to bring up Bain again, I will discuss it.

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Sorry, you're way off the mark. I won't address most of your post, but I will say this -- when I say people died, I wasn't referring to military. Where in the hell did you get that? I'm talking about pre-civil rights activists and those who fought for the right to vote in the 50s and 60s.

You talked about people dying for our freedoms. My mistake to assume a liberal would be talking about the people that actually died for our freedoms, the military. I dont even know why I ever expect a liberal to respect our military. I keep making that mistake over and over again.

[Monkeydad]

Watching President Obama try to debate Romney is like watching Billy Cundiff try to kick from beyond 50 yards, or Reed Doughty try to cover Andre Johnson.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

I was talking about the Chinese Govt, not some random businessmen in Hong Kong. You never even touched on that so please do tell how you could of shot something down that you never even touched on.



I made a comment about China. You came back with a Bain comment. If you dont want to discuss Bain, then dont bring it up. More importantly, dont bring it up then claim that I did. But if you want to bring up Bain again, I will discuss it.



You talked about people dying for our freedoms. My mistake to assume a liberal would be talking about the people that actually died for our freedoms, the military. I dont even know why I ever expect a liberal to respect our military. I keep making that mistake over and over again.

You seem to be carelessly reading and seeing what you want in my post. That, or you're being blatantly dishonest. The word "freedom" never appeared in my post and neither did the military's role in protecting said freedoms. In fact, you dragged the military into this. Not once did I make any inference to our men and women in uniform.

On top of your misguided response, you seem to equate being liberal with a disdain for our military. I'll just say this, we have liberals and conservatives who are members of this forum that have served proudly in our nation's armed forces. Our politics may differ, but we're all patriots nonetheless.

But let me clarify my original post. From 1955-1968, particularly in the segregated south, many civil rights activists were martyred as they petitioned gov't to grant them voting rights. The Women's Suffrage Movement in the late 19th century and early 20th century, which culminated in 1920 with the passage of the Nineteenth Amendment; "The United States Constitution prohibits any United States citizen to be denied the right to vote based on sex. It was ratified on August 18, 1920. "

So yes, I stand by my original post. Men and women have fought, suffered, and many have died for the right to vote in this country. I don't see what's controversial about that.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

I'll just say this, we have liberals and conservatives who are members of this forum that have served proudly in our nation's armed forces. Our politics may differ, but we're all patriots nonetheless.

Well said, couldn't agree with you more!

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Sorry, I know too many people who would vote for Hitler if he supported their positions (whichever side it might be) on gay marriage and abortion. To my mind, Romney is on the losing side of these issues in terms of votes (i.e. regardless of how you feel as to the right and wrong of the underlying issue, more voters support Obama on these issues)

I know you live in the People's Republic of MD and don't get out much....but I would refer you to these polls that show on abortion and gay marriage a majority do not support those positions:

Abortion

Same-Sex Marriage: Polls, Votes and Courts | RealClearPolitics

Ultimately, I foresee myself casting a protest vote for the Libertarians this year. (I am a citizen of the Democratic Party sub-committee known as the State of Maryland so it really doesn't matter for whom I vote. The electoral votes are already in the bank).

Blech to it all.

I've got an address here in VA and we could use the help if you change your mind :cool-smil

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by saden1

Being fiery doesn't win elections, making the voters feel you care about them and their lives does. Obama left one too many unused trump-cards at the table though I think Obama did a good job explaining his policies and positions vs Romney's.

There are 3 more quarters left in the game and the deck is still hot.

I never thought I would say this.....but I actually feel a bit bad for Obama and the way the media wings of the DNC (msnbc, etc.) are ready to throw him under the bus. You could see it everywhere last night and this AM. They're setting up to dump an election loss squarely on him and trash the guy because he can't defend the last 3 1/2 years (I say policies, others will say bad situation, folks in the middle would say both),his far left ideology (yes I know that's a debatable point), and he can't live up to the diety-like aspirations the clowns (yes, Chris Matthews I mean you) in the left wing media put on him.

These two-faced, opportunistic, back-stabbers have carried the water and covered for Obama since 2007. Now they're ready to throw him to the wolves and cover their own hind-quarters....and this is before any real polls have come out suggesting a drastic shift in nationwide polls. Shameful. But, Obama has taken advantage of these useful idiots all this time also. Moral of the story, be careful who you make your bed with.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You seem to be carelessly reading and seeing what you want in my post. That, or you're being blatantly dishonest. The word "freedom" never appeared in my post and neither did the military's role in protecting said freedoms. In fact, you dragged the military into this. Not once did I make any inference to our men and women in uniform.

On top of your misguided response, you seem to equate being liberal with a disdain for our military. I'll just say this, we have liberals and conservatives who are members of this forum that have served proudly in our nation's armed forces. Our politics may differ, but we're all patriots nonetheless.

But let me clarify my original post. From 1955-1968, particularly in the segregated south, many civil rights activists were martyred as they petitioned gov't to grant them voting rights. The Women's Suffrage Movement in the late 19th century and early 20th century, which culminated in 1920 with the passage of the Nineteenth Amendment; "The United States Constitution prohibits any United States citizen to be denied the right to vote based on sex. It was ratified on August 18, 1920. "

So yes, I stand by my original post. Men and women have fought, suffered, and many have died for the right to vote in this country. I don't see what's controversial about that.

You did mention freedoms of this country, you mentioned the right to vote, Thats a freedom we have in this country.

I will apologize for the comment but will not watch as as dems have gone out of their way to suppress military vote (as they have done in multiple elections, most recently a month or two ago in Ohio) then watch as they claim people have the right to vote. If that right is for people of this country, we should all include the military in that, dont you agree? After all, they have died to give and keep our freedoms. They deserve that vote.

You want to talk about the suppression of votes but will always forget about ones that are suppressed that dont go for your candidate, as evidenced by your failure to mention the military when you were on the subject.

If the conversation is vote suppression, then lets talk about all of it. Not just wanting ID's to be shown. So when you are talking about voter suppression, and seem to forget about our men and women in uniform, then I am going to say something. The reason I said something was because you brought up voter suppression and went out of your way to avoid the military, and even got mad when I brought them up. Thay have had their vote suppressed for a long time. My dad is a retired Colonel in the Air Force, I have seen that voter suppression first hand.

So shall we talk about all voter suppression, or are we going to keep avoiding the men and women who proudly have served this country while complaining about other votes? Thats what is so controversial about it.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

President Obama was off last night. No other way to put it. Romney won, Obama lost.

Two more debates to go and a jobs report tomorrow.

Most are predicting the DOL's jobs report to be modest in the 115k range. Although this sounds interesting and also very resonable:

TrimTabs Says U.S. Economy Adds 210,000 Jobs in September - TrimTabs Money Blog

Anything over 150k will probably be very good for Obama.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

Being fiery doesn't win elections, making the voters feel you care about them and their lives does. Obama left one too many unused trump-cards at the table though I think Obama did a good job explaining his policies and positions vs Romney's.

There are 3 more quarters left in the game and the deck is still hot.

Yea, the same old policies he said he was going to do in his first term.

[mlmpetert]

Originally Posted by Daseal

I haven't seen it yet, it's on the DVR for tonight. However, I heard the moderation was absolutely horrible (for both sides). Will the same moderator do all of the debates or do they typically switch it up?

Sounds like Obama dropped this one pretty bad and Mitt came out strong. I have a feeling Ryan will own Biden pretty hard. I'm not a Biden fan at all in general. Seems weird and against net neutrality. Paul Ryan, although I don't agree with many of his stances, seems pretty charismatic and smart.

I heard a little over half of the debate, the first half of which was on radio in a car, but i thought it was the best moderater i have ever heard. I didnt realize there was only one moderater at first and i thought the debate was a little out of control then i started to realize what was going on. It wasnt a Meet the Press talking points style Q&A. Rather it was an actual debate.

From a person that really gets under my skin, but cant help but completely agree with on Lehrer:

“He made the moderator not a factor in the debate. He left the debate up to the debaters. If Mitt Romney was going to have a really tough question put to him, President Obama was going to have to do it. And the same thing the other way around.

“I think Jim Lehrer made a great choice, all the way through," O'Donnell added. "Staying out of it as much as he did was the thing to do. I think we’ve had way too much grandstanding by debate moderators, way too much prosecuting by debate moderators. Let the debaters do it. If you find yourself bored or somehow disappointed in the debate, it’s the debaters fault.”

MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell: 'I liked the job Jim Lehrer did' - POLITICO.com

[Slingin Sammy 33]

I'm sure after watching registrations being poached by conservative seniors' groups, AARP is heading for the hills after being a major advocate for ObamaCare. Best to hedge their bets if Obama gets his clock cleaned again in the next two debates, Romney wins, and I see some "Capital Gains" of my own .

AARP objects to Obama invoking group's support during debate | Fox News

[los panda]

i never pay much attention, i sell my vote every election anyways.

[DynamiteRave]

Fact check yo.

Fact checking the debate

And for the liberal media moaners, The Obama-Romney debate fact-check: Who told the biggest whoppers? - Yahoo! News