The Moves We Should Make Next Year (merged)

[chris36]

Ok That Guy, releasing him would look like this.

......................2006 ......................2007
......................Salary Release .........Salary Release
Rynaldo Wynn ..$3028 and $3057 ......$4028 and $1528

In 2006 we would have had a $29000 dollar charge to release Wynn. In 2007 we have $2.5 million dollars of freed up cap space. Someone, please correct me if I am wrong.

[That Guy]

http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-l...-get-done.html

has a link to a WP article as well. cutting wynn would have saved 396k last year. he has a 500k roster bonus in both 2006 and 2007 and he converted 2.835mill from salary to SB in 2005 (this offseason during the cap crisis).


more links:
http://www.thewarpath.net/printthrea...6&page=1&pp=10
Amid Labor Deal Uncertainty, Redskins Face Payroll Cuts
http://www.thewarpath.net/printthread.php?t=11196&pp=40

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by chris36

Ok That Guy, releasing him would look like this.

......................2006 ......................2007
......................Salarie Release .........Salarie Release
Rynaldo Wynn ..$3028 and $3057 ......$4028 and $1528

In 2006 we would have had a $29000 dollar charge to release Wynn. In 2007 we have $2.5 million dollars of freed up cap space. Someone, please correct me if I am wrong.

What in the hell is a "Salarie"?

[That Guy]

Player		Lgth	Sal	SB	OB	Total
Renaldo Wynn	6	$7,690	$6,335	$1,000	$15,025
----Converted $2.835M from 2005 salary to SB/Readjusted 2006 & 2007 salary
----and Added $500K RB in 2006-2007

so... here's the before an after breakdown on his contract:

	pre-restructure		post-restructure
total	6 years/$15.025/$3.5	6 years/$7.69/6.335
2006	1.5?/0.583SB		1/1.528SB/0.5roster
2007	3.5?/0.583SB		2/1.528SB/0.5roster

? = best guess from memory...

[chris36]

ok your right. Saving $396,000 was worth cutting Wynn. I would have played in his place for $300,000.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by chris36

ok your right. Saving $396,000 was worth cutting Wynn. I would have played in his place for $300,000.

you're rationalizing. i never said it made sense, only that you were wrong in stating that it'd cost us money to cut him while telling me to be more careful about getting MY shit straight :P.

[chris36]

Ok That Guy, releasing him would look like this.

......................2006 ......................2007
......................Salary Release .........Salary Release
Rynaldo Wynn ..$3028 and $3057 ......$4028 and $1528

In 2006 we would have had a $29000 dollar charge to release Wynn. In 2007 we have $2.5 million dollars of freed up cap space. Someone, please correct me if I am wrong.

You are extremely hard headed, sometimes it is better just to admit you are wrong. I was simply stating what is on the cap page. Which I tend to beleive more so than you.

Code:

Player Lgth Sal SB OB TotalRenaldo Wynn 6 $7,690 $6,335 $1,000 $15,025----Converted $2.835M from 2005 salary to SB/Readjusted 2006 & 2007 salary----and Added $500K RB in 2006-2007

so... here's the before an after breakdown on his contract:

Code:

pre-restructure post-restructure
total 6 years/$15.025/$3.5 6 years/$7.69/6.335
2006 1.5?/0.583SB 1/1.528SB/0.5roster
2007 3.5?/0.583SB 2/1.528SB/0.5roster

? = best guess from memory...

This is your best gues from memory. But in the case that you are correct, they kept him because it made no monetary sense to let him go. That was not your argument for keeping him. You are at this point, contradicticting yourself.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Hey ThatGuy and chris36, I can beat of you in a pissing match.

[dmek25]

where is crazycanuck to settle this?

[Longtimefan]

Originally Posted by Bill B

From a cap and contract perspective I could see the following cuts:
Brunell - his salary jumps to $6.633 in 2007, Andre Carter in 2008 when his salary jumps to $5 million, unless a restructure occurs one has to take notice of Cornelius Griffins contract - it jumps to $6.166 million in 2007 and with his injuries that is a lot of money tied up in one player, Shawn Springs contract jumps to $7.3 million in 2007 - cutting him and signing Clements makes sense in 2007. Finally David Patten jumps to $3 million in 2007 so he is also a cap cut too I would think.

Brunell will cost 6.6 mil. if he's on the team next year. If we cut him before June 1st he'll count 4.3 mil. in DC. however if he's released after June 1st, he'll count 1.5 mil. a saving of 5.1 mil. which would apear to make him a prime candidate to be released. Springs must think seriously about restructering as well as Patten, otherwise they too could be considered candidates for release. However much depends on what happens the remainder of this season.

[shallyshal]

Originally Posted by That Guy

boy, i'm glad you're not in charge. jansen? are you kidding? who's his replacement that'd cost less and perform better? you do know that stability helps a team and these sprees and massive cuts are part of the problem, right? vincent is making minimum. what other 53 players are going to be on the roster that are more talented and warrant his release? springs salary is insane? are you nuts? he's underpaid due to a history of injuries, even though that's just bitten us. #1 corners ain't cheap, and clements is going to want something close to $7.5mill a year.

and we've had so much luck finding one DE that will let the best 2 we've had in the last few years go with no plan or replacement in sight? btw, we won't have the money to go get clements, a DE, and steinbach, etc etc to replace those cuts.

sorry, but THAT plan needs a lot more work with reality.

it comes down to how this team plays for the remainder of this year..

as i said, if they finish 5-11 or in that range, there is no reason to maintain "stability" by keeping players who are pulling down large increases in salaries and yet whose production is falling off.
both wynn and daniels are old by league standards. and we are getting neither pass rush, nor consistent run stoppage by the d line. that is not to be rewarded. we need younger, more athletic performers at defensive end because without a consistent pass rush from the def end position, GW's defense will continue to flounder.

i said that dockery should be resigned. i do not think he will be because he will ask for the moon if he is allowed to go into the offseason as a free agent. what gives you confidence the front office will resign him ? if not, because we have allowed a number of potential younger players to slip away (ndukwe, harvey, pino) we will not have a ready replacement on the roster. that means someone who is a free agent

as for springs. he has always been a brittle player. that was the knock on him in seattle. if he cannot regain his health is he worth 7 mil per year next year? if clements and he cost the same, and clements is younger and healthier, who is the better corner to have? we will need at least 1 free agent corner if we follow the same path we have travelled the last couple of years. at least a #3. harris, then wright, then ???

i hope vincent plays well and is worth keeping next year. but even vet minimum is steep with the number of years of service he has accrued.
too bad we didn't keep the younger, cheaper clark.. but that was hindsight

and now onto my favorite player.. jansen.. have you even looked at his play this year ? he is not the same player he was before his series of injuries 2 years ago. part of the reason brunell rolls to his left constantly is because jansen's play has fallen off so dramatically. i believe that parcell's focus on beating jansen was well reported. let's see what he does tomorrow after he has in effect, been called out. in fact, we have a huge amount of dollars invested inthe o line overall. is there any group on the team that is giving less bang for the buck now?... continuity? sure it is good. but both the saints and cowboys have retooled their o line on the fly this year and are getting far better production than we are for less bucks..

[chris36]

I am not seeing Jansen playing that bad. I thought Brunnell rolled to his left because he was left handed. I was kind of suprised that Parcels said that about Jansen. The guy that I have been disapointed with is Samuels.

[Crat92]

Originally Posted by chris36

I am not seeing Jansen playing that bad. I thought Brunnell rolled to his left because he was left handed. I was kind of suprised that Parcels said that about Jansen. The guy that I have been disapointed with is Samuels.

With as bad as Jansen has been playin' you'd think his thumbs were still broken!

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by chris36

You are extremely hard headed, sometimes it is better just to admit you are wrong. I was simply stating what is on the cap page. Which I tend to beleive more so than you.






This is your best gues from memory. But in the case that you are correct, they kept him because it made no monetary sense to let him go. That was not your argument for keeping him. You are at this point, contradicticting yourself.

you're an idiot. why should i admit i'm wrong when it's clear you can't read?
you see the note about how the contract was adjusted in this offseason? that changed the 2006 and 2007 figures, BUT IT'S IN THE CAP SHEET you say you've read. once the extra 2.8 went from salary to signing bonus, the economics of ditching wynn changed. i even linked to f'ing articles from the time showing that cutting him would clearly save cap space. I'm sorry you've decided to side with ignorance, but trying to teach brick walls is a waste of my time. though it is amusing that you'd call me hard-headed when you're the one that's repeatedly reciting false information, even after the actual facts are presented.

and my arguement for keeping him is simply that unless you have a reason to let him go (ie getting a better player with his cap space), there's no reason to do so. Once again, i'd appreciate if you actually took the time to at least read my posts before wasting your time with pointless replies.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by shallyshal

it comes down to how this team plays for the remainder of this year..

as i said, if they finish 5-11 or in that range, there is no reason to maintain "stability" by keeping players who are pulling down large increases in salaries and yet whose production is falling off.
both wynn and daniels are old by league standards. and we are getting neither pass rush, nor consistent run stoppage by the d line. that is not to be rewarded. we need younger, more athletic performers at defensive end because without a consistent pass rush from the def end position, GW's defense will continue to flounder.

true. good points.

i said that dockery should be resigned. i do not think he will be because he will ask for the moon if he is allowed to go into the offseason as a free agent. what gives you confidence the front office will resign him ? if not, because we have allowed a number of potential younger players to slip away (ndukwe, harvey, pino) we will not have a ready replacement on the roster. that means someone who is a free agent

well, i honestly don't think he's done anything to earn a big paycheck. he's average at best at one of the very cheapest positions in football. A 3rd round pick last year could have gotten a day 1 starter for september (charles spencer or max-jean gilles), but we opted to trade ours to move up for an LB that can't beat out holdman (of all people) and next year's 3rd for a RB we haven't played (and most likely won't be able to sign, not that i think we should try). I think he'll probably be kept. I wouldn't worry about ndukwe pino et al though, none of those guys are starters and all are readily replaceable with generic roster trash.

as for springs. he has always been a brittle player. that was the knock on him in seattle. if he cannot regain his health is he worth 7 mil per year next year? if clements and he cost the same, and clements is younger and healthier, who is the better corner to have? we will need at least 1 free agent corner if we follow the same path we have travelled the last couple of years. at least a #3. harris, then wright, then ???

again, that's true, and clements is a real #1, but it'd be cheaper to keep springs than it'd be to cut him next year (by about 100k), so it's not like you'd be able to choose to pay one over the other for 2007. harris was better than wright, but wright, prioleau, and vincent may all be back for 2007, so that may work itself out. I do agree that clements would be a good investment, it's just projecting the future impact with all the craptacularly overpaid dead weight is hard, but i haven't really taken time to look into it (in depth) yet.

i hope vincent plays well and is worth keeping next year. but even vet minimum is steep with the number of years of service he has accrued.
too bad we didn't keep the younger, cheaper clark.. but that was hindsight

if he signs a 1year deal, vet min is capped at 425k, if it's multi-year, than it'd be capped at 810k. price/performance-wise, 810k would still be pretty hard to knock. on clark, plenty of people here saw that with foresight, and EVERYONE has seen it in hindsight . it is a shame though, cause arch is stuck here for 3 years minimum.

and now onto my favorite player.. jansen.. have you even looked at his play this year ? he is not the same player he was before his series of injuries 2 years ago. part of the reason brunell rolls to his left constantly is because jansen's play has fallen off so dramatically. i believe that parcell's focus on beating jansen was well reported. let's see what he does tomorrow after he has in effect, been called out. in fact, we have a huge amount of dollars invested inthe o line overall. is there any group on the team that is giving less bang for the buck now?... continuity? sure it is good. but both the saints and cowboys have retooled their o line on the fly this year and are getting far better production than we are for less bucks..

well, that's the FO's fault for overpaying (they had plenty of time to get samuels much cheaper, but they waited and waited, and then seattle made their guy the highest paid LT EVER, and that screwed the works :/). with only one #1 pick, some 2nd day selections, and limited cap flexibility, i don't think we're going to be able to fix all the holes, and cb + pass rush are much bigger issues. jansen is still better than his backup (who's actually pretty good for a backup OT and has lots of starting experience - for the texans :/).