The Official Warpath Sign Tim Rattay and Cut Todd Collins Thread

[SmootSmack]

I'd prefer to get someone a bit younger than Rattay. Ideally, a rookie or 2nd year person that we could dump on the practice squad for a year then send to NFL Europe. Granted, that's what we're doing with Bramlet.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'd prefer to get someone a bit younger than Rattay. Ideally, a rookie or 2nd year person that we could dump on the practice squad for a year then send to NFL Europe. Granted, that's what we're doing with Bramlet.

Bring back Gibran Hamden!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

The World's Most Sophisticated Offense.

Trademarked.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Uh, no? A guy who has a 1st round pick at QB behind him on the depth chart will get replaced whenever the team feels the young gun is ready. Brunell had basically been keeping the seat warm for two years.

Gibbs knew that he'd be costing us some wins when he went to Campbell, but in a lost season, the decision was an easy one. Giving up merely your best chance to win for a much better chance to win in future seasons is a no brainer. Gibbs didn't just fall off the turnip truck, he had a plan with his QBs all along and he stuck to it.

I have to diagree with that, the sooner we get a legitamate backup in here the sooner he can start learning the system and the players around him, unless someone believes that Campbell can lead us to a SB this season [because we know Brunell can't] then it's senseless to keep him around this season, we have to prepare for the future not worry about winning 1 or 2 extra games if Campbell goes down, because with Brunell those 1 or 2 games will result in a lesser draft pick not a playoff berth.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'd prefer to get someone a bit younger than Rattay. Ideally, a rookie or 2nd year person that we could dump on the practice squad for a year then send to NFL Europe. Granted, that's what we're doing with Bramlet.

I am officially an anyone but Brunell, or Collins guy!

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by offiss

I have to diagree with that, the sooner we get a legitamate backup in here the sooner he can start learning the system and the players around him, unless someone believes that Campbell can lead us to a SB this season [because we know Brunell can't] then it's senseless to keep him around this season, we have to prepare for the future not worry about winning 1 or 2 extra games if Campbell goes down, because with Brunell those 1 or 2 games will result in a lesser draft pick not a playoff berth.

Trouble is, nobody in this thread wants to deal with the reality of the 2007 salary cap. It's like I'm preaching to a collective brick wall.

David Carr signed a deal with the Panthers for $3.1 million per season. Joey Harrington signed a deal with the Falcons for $3.0 million per season. I've seen it suggested that we give Rattay a 3-year deal, with vet min salaries in years 1 and 2, and then a salary of $1.2 million in year 3. This along with a $3.5 million signing bonus. While that deal would work with our salary cap (barely, still makes it extremely tight this season); the deal wouldn't come close to comparing to the Carr and Harrington deals, it's less than $2.0 million per season. I'm not sure what the logic is that leads anyone to think that Tim Rattay deserves 33% less than David Carr or Joey Harrington.

I know this thread was started in the interests of playing fantasy GM, suggesting a course of action for the team. Luckily our coaches like Todd Collins an awful lot, because signing Rattay to a fair-market deal would put us in dire salary cap straits. It's unrealistic.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'd prefer to get someone a bit younger than Rattay. Ideally, a rookie or 2nd year person that we could dump on the practice squad for a year then send to NFL Europe. Granted, that's what we're doing with Bramlet.

Given that we can't sign Tim Rattay this year because of salary cap reasons, we'd have to address our future at backup QB next season.

I would suggest next year that we resign Todd Collins as the #2 and let Brunell walk into the sunset. My reasoning is mainly driven by the cap. Brunell's contract was recently restructured in such a way that we all know he's gone after this season; I'll donate one of my testicles to charity if he's not.

Nobody in the NFL, except Al Saunders, knows squat about Todd Collins. Nobody's going to bid him up. We'll get him for one year, vet minimum, or close to it. He knows the system well, in his limited action he's about 1:1 when it comes to INT/TD ratio, completes an adequate percentage of his passes, and he has familiarity with the team's personnel.

For the #3 spot, I'd go with Smootsmack's suggestion; bring along a young fella. Draft someone late in 2008 who can learn quickly and make solid decisions. Groom him for the #2 job.

I agree that it makes sense to get someone in here earlier if we can, so they can start learning. But the cap prohibits it in Rattay's case.

[724Skinsfan]

Maybe I'm missing something between the comparison of Collins and Rattay. How much better is he compared to Collins?They both seem like journeyman backups. The difference is that Collins seems to be liked(trusted) by his offensive coordinator while Rattay is liked by no one. Right now if he's willing to sign for vet minimum then there should be one or two teams that would make him an offer.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Does Rattay have a stronger arm than Frye? I mean maybe he does

I think so. Frye throws like crap. He looks like a HS QB. I'm not sure how he made it to the pros.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 724Skinsfan

Maybe I'm missing something between the comparison of Collins and Rattay. How much better is he compared to Collins?They both seem like journeyman backups. The difference is that Collins seems to be liked(trusted) by his offensive coordinator while Rattay is liked by no one. Right now if he's willing to sign for vet minimum then there should be one or two teams that would make him an offer.

I agree wholeheartedly. I don't understand what makes Rattay so attractive. He's been cast away by two teams now, and has generated little to no interest on the open market.

Gruden thought so highly of him that he went out and signed Garcia and made a play for Plummer.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

How do you suggest we improve the frequency we get big plays at?

Look, the reason I look at sabremetric stats is because points don't tell the whole story. The raw points don't tell you how many turnovers we didn't get this year, how many points the defense didn't score this year, how pathetic our 32nd ranked starting ave. field postion was, or how much the discrepancy of points were just a function of luck. 15% doesn't look all that convincing when you see the reasoning.

Big plays will certainly help, but I don't know how you plan to get them. If you throw deep too often hoping to create big plays, you will raise INTs and kill a lot of drives.

The best way to get big plays is to get the ball in the hands of Moss, Portis and Cooley and let them do their thing. This is a sign Tim Rattay/Cut Todd Collins thread. I don't understand how creating more big plays should be a factor in this decision.

This is a good point. Regarding Moss how do you think we can get the ball in his hands more? Do we keep throwing that stupid slip screen that everyone in the NFL has caught on to and hope Santana breaks 5 tackles? No. We are going to have to throw it more in the +20 yard range. So we have to try and throw more deep passes like every other team in the NFL does and not be so paranoid about INT's. Conservative offense only works when you have a great defense and that aint the case here. We tried the conservative offense in 04 and it got us a 6-10 record with a top 5 defense.

[freddyg12]

Who knows, maybe Bramlet beats out Collins in the preseason. The odds are not in his favor to do so considering Collins' knowledge of the system & the fact that it's difficult to get pt even in the preseason games w/3 qbs, much less 4.

[MTK]

I'm in favor of as little change as possible this offseason.

After offseason after offseason of changes and major upheavals, I thought most people would feel the same way but apparently not.

The focus of the offseason and upcoming camps should all be on getting Campbell ready. We don't need to be teaching the offense to another new QB, or two as some people seem to want.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm in favor of as little change as possible this offseason.

After offseason after offseason of changes, I thought most people would feel the same way but apparently not.

The focus of the offseason and upcoming camps should all be on getting Campbell ready. We don't need to be teaching the offense to another new QB, or two as some people seem to want.

Wholeheartedly agreed. I'm into the word wholehearted today.

We have one QB coach, Bill Lazor. He needs to focus on Jason Campbell this season. Al Saunders needs to be concerned with Jason Campbell, and the remainder of the offense.

The last thing I want to see is Campbell get shortchanged on time with the coaches just so we can start grooming a Tim Rattay for a future #2 job. It's a misallocation of coaching resources. Todd Collins is low maintenance, he knows what he's doing, coaches don't need to spend extra time with him. We invested a ton in Campbell, and he is showing that he has the talent. We need to make the full investment in him as our QB, which includes investing the coaching man-hours to harvest his talent and generate production.

[dmek25]

once again the voice of reason