Our WRs in 2009... My Thoughts

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by RedskinPete

Did Mix shot himself to? Got to be like Burress!

Lame dude.



PS. It's shoot not shot.

[The Goat]

Gonna sound a little corny but I think the WR situation @ Redskins Park requires some very effective communication. First to Thomas. WTF "i'm a rookie who got drafted earlier than I should have but now want to take a break from the game." The entire braintrust from Danny/Vinny to Zorn/Hixon (or whoever should replace Hixon) ought to sit him down and thoroughly make a psych evaluation. If DT is really "burnt out" and unwilling to totally commit to a rigorous offseason working w/ JC (who we all know will spend the time) and commit to OTAs etc... then I honestly believe we ought to cut him yesterday and go get someone. Whatever potential he's got, which may be elite for all we know, won't mean shit unless he works hard, based on his struggles w/ routes/playbook/everything thus far. Pretty simple IMO.

Kelly's situation is different because it requires frankness with/from the medical staff and trainers. If his knees look like the degenerative type one has to seriously question whether he's worth the massive investment of time/resources for what would be a short career. Or maybe his knees are healing and he'll be ready. The powers that be have to know for sure and make some wise decisions on Kelly.

Davis looks more promising IMO than his two colleagues at this point, though the braintrust probably needs to consistently communicate (maybe demand) effort in the offseason and OTAs.

I think WR looks more precarious now than it has in several years. The best 16 or so defenses seem to have our number when Moss/El are on the field together. New talent seems essential and our best two roster prospects have huge question marks looming.

While I don't think anything will ever come of it, if by chance Thomas and Kelly are draft busts there would no longer be a reasonable argument for Vinny C keeping his job (or probably any job with any franchise for that matter). But like I said, he's got nothing to worry about.

[tryfuhl]

Agree for the most part Goat

I'm not sure why we took Kelly honestly.. he could be electric but his knee issues were already well known, I would've rather taken someone with good NFL skills but maybe not as big of a name and taken a slightly bigger gamble.. hopefully I can come back to eat those words, but if he has one rebuilt knee and the other is arthritic.. kinda hard to imagine that

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Confidence in the pass protection.

Their O line ain't all that. McNabb always has people in his face. Let's not pretend that every QB in the league has all day to throw while JC gets gang tackled on every pass play.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Why does Reid have confidence in McNabb(if he does) because he has been with him forever. I would think that the Eagles resurgence would give more proof that time and patience are what Zorn/Campbell needs, not a quick firing.

The Eagles went 11-5 in McNabb's first full season as a starter. Reid was in his second year in Philly.

McNabb had 21 TDs and 13 INTs that year and he rushed for 629 yards and 6 TDs.

Reid's teams have gone to the playoffs 11 times in 14 years as a head coach.

Campbell has 36 starts under his belt.

There were rookie coaches that had confidence in rookie QBs this year. If Zorn can't get creative on offense, because he doesn't have confidence in Campbell YET, then something's wrong and more games isn't going to fix it.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Gonna sound a little corny but I think the WR situation @ Redskins Park requires some very effective communication. First to Thomas. WTF "i'm a rookie who got drafted earlier than I should have but now want to take a break from the game." The entire braintrust from Danny/Vinny to Zorn/Hixon (or whoever should replace Hixon) ought to sit him down and thoroughly make a psych evaluation. If DT is really "burnt out" and unwilling to totally commit to a rigorous offseason working w/ JC (who we all know will spend the time) and commit to OTAs etc... then I honestly believe we ought to cut him yesterday and go get someone. Whatever potential he's got, which may be elite for all we know, won't mean shit unless he works hard, based on his struggles w/ routes/playbook/everything thus far. Pretty simple IMO.

Kelly's situation is different because it requires frankness with/from the medical staff and trainers. If his knees look like the degenerative type one has to seriously question whether he's worth the massive investment of time/resources for what would be a short career. Or maybe his knees are healing and he'll be ready. The powers that be have to know for sure and make some wise decisions on Kelly.

Davis looks more promising IMO than his two colleagues at this point, though the braintrust probably needs to consistently communicate (maybe demand) effort in the offseason and OTAs.

I think WR looks more precarious now than it has in several years. The best 16 or so defenses seem to have our number when Moss/El are on the field together. New talent seems essential and our best two roster prospects have huge question marks looming.

While I don't think anything will ever come of it, if by chance Thomas and Kelly are draft busts there would no longer be a reasonable argument for Vinny C keeping his job (or probably any job with any franchise for that matter). But like I said, he's got nothing to worry about.

RE: Thomas. Where are the leaders on this team? Imagine if the Ravens used a second round pick on a linebacker who said he needed a break. What do you think Ray Lewis would do? Think the coaches would need to sit that guy down?

Who's our high-paid veteran leader on offense? Portis? Please.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Agree for the most part Goat

I'm not sure why we took Kelly honestly.. he could be electric but his knee issues were already well known, I would've rather taken someone with good NFL skills but maybe not as big of a name and taken a slightly bigger gamble.. hopefully I can come back to eat those words, but if he has one rebuilt knee and the other is arthritic.. kinda hard to imagine that

Yeah Kelly doesn't seem like a wise pick where we sit today, however the '08 draft class overall looks less than stellar IMO (i know that's way too general to really back up but outside 2 good QBs, a few good WR/TE/RB, three o-lineman and a small group of defensive players like Mayo there's not a whole lot to have fallen in love w/ from last year). Still, as a franchise you've got to make strides w/ the hand your dealt and we don't look to have played our cards well in the '08 draft considering the opportunity cost of Thomas/Kelly if they're busts.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

RE: Thomas. Where are the leaders on this team? Imagine if the Ravens used a second round pick on a linebacker who said he needed a break. What do you think Ray Lewis would do? Think the coaches would need to sit that guy down?

Who's our high-paid veteran leader on offense? Portis? Please.

Excellent point. You're right about CP on leadership. As much as I admire him as a pure baller he is not a real leader. JC is becoming the leader on offense from what I see, but with DT being a WR it should be Moss (or maybe ARL) to straighten him out. I wonder if either vet has really tried to mentor him in a serious way and how he's responded.

To answer your question about what Lewis would do... bad things man, bad things.

[SmootSmack]

Well, maybe JLC was right about DT. I talked to some of my media friends down in DC who cover the Redskins and they told Thomas was a pain to deal with in the locker room. A lot of "It's time for you guys to get out of here" even when the reporters weren't even around him (which was more often than not). It's not something he can't grow out of though, others in the past were like this and changed. Still, his biggest problem isn't the attitude, it's understanding the routes. They said the other teammates don't dislike him or anything like that, they just want him to grow up...now.

On the other hand, they love, love, love, love Kelly. Reporters, players, coaches. Great personality, fun to be around, loads of potential. Just has to stay healthy.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

The Eagles went 11-5 in McNabb's first full season as a starter. Reid was in his second year in Philly.

McNabb had 21 TDs and 13 INTs that year and he rushed for 629 yards and 6 TDs.

Reid's teams have gone to the playoffs 11 times in 14 years as a head coach.

Campbell has 36 starts under his belt.

There were rookie coaches that had confidence in rookie QBs this year. If Zorn can't get creative on offense, because he doesn't have confidence in Campbell YET, then something's wrong and more games isn't going to fix it.

I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I think Zorn had confidence in Campbell, and that is why we became more pass oriented. My point about time is that time brings "intimacy". A newly married couple may be confident in each other's love and have strong beliefs about how the other will act. BUT a couple who has been married 7 yrs or more have an intimacy of knowledge as to what each will do, and they work more as a unit (in a perfect world obviously).

That may not be a perfect analogy, and in football we are talking months not years, but as Zorn and Campbell work together, and the rest of the team around them, the depth and available options should only increase. Yes there have been some rookie hc's that were more successful, but I'm pretty sure I could with little effort cite examples of rookie hc's that were far less successful.

Finally, my main point was that in the Dan Snyder era, we have constantly changed system/coach/qb thus never letting the "intimacy" of a system develop. So if the Eagles win shows anything to Dan I would hope it would be that you don't have to scrap everything when you hit harder times.

For the record, McNabb may have gone 11-5 his first full year, but how many times has he failed in reaching the playoffs/superbowl; ask yourself, would the old Dan Snyder be patient with THAT number? Would Andy Reid still have a job? or what about Eli Manning and Tom Coughlin?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well, maybe JLC was right about DT. I talked to some of my media friends down in DC who cover the Redskins and they told Thomas was a pain to deal with in the locker room. A lot of "It's time for you guys to get out of here" even when the reporters weren't even around him (which was more often than not). It's not something he can't grow out of though, others in the past were like this and changed. Still, his biggest problem isn't the attitude, it's understanding the routes. They said the other teammates don't dislike him or anything like that, they just want him to grow up...now.

On the other hand, they love, love, love, love Kelly. Reporters, players, coaches. Great personality, fun to be around, loads of potential. Just has to stay healthy.

Def a piece of good news for all Skins fans. Doctors/trainers can work miracles anymore w/ our bodies too so i'm staying positive on MK.

[GTripp0012]

I don't see Kelly really getting going until his third season here, but I think the passing game is going to make leaps and bounds with the guys it already has next year.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't see Kelly really getting going until his third season here, but I think the passing game is going to make leaps and bounds with the guys it already has next year.

I think it could be as well. The Skins had weapons, but didn't use them effectively (or at all in some cases). The backs were almost non-existent in the passing game, the rookies couldn't get on the field and pass protection was shaky at times, although I think they could have schemed better to compensate for any weaknesses in the O line. They really only had trouble blocking the better defenses, like the Ravens, Giants, Steelers and Cowboys. Can't blame pass protection for the losses to the Bungles, Rams and 49ers.

I'm optimistic that the coaches will be better, because they can't be any worse, and that the young guys emerge. They only need a middle of the pack offense to be a playoff team, assuming the defense remaints stout. Better offense makes for better defense anyway.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I think you may have misunderstood what I was trying to say. I think Zorn had confidence in Campbell, and that is why we became more pass oriented. My point about time is that time brings "intimacy". A newly married couple may be confident in each other's love and have strong beliefs about how the other will act. BUT a couple who has been married 7 yrs or more have an intimacy of knowledge as to what each will do, and they work more as a unit (in a perfect world obviously).

That may not be a perfect analogy, and in football we are talking months not years, but as Zorn and Campbell work together, and the rest of the team around them, the depth and available options should only increase. Yes there have been some rookie hc's that were more successful, but I'm pretty sure I could with little effort cite examples of rookie hc's that were far less successful.

Finally, my main point was that in the Dan Snyder era, we have constantly changed system/coach/qb thus never letting the "intimacy" of a system develop. So if the Eagles win shows anything to Dan I would hope it would be that you don't have to scrap everything when you hit harder times.

For the record, McNabb may have gone 11-5 his first full year, but how many times has he failed in reaching the playoffs/superbowl; ask yourself, would the old Dan Snyder be patient with THAT number? Would Andy Reid still have a job? or what about Eli Manning and Tom Coughlin?

Not many times and yes, as bad an owner DS is, I think he'd be thrilled with Reid and McNabb's track record. McNabb went to 4 conference championships in a row and a Super Bowl. He's generally been a very productive QB and still takes as much or more criticism than Campbell.

But I hear you. DS has been a failure as an owner. I won't argue that.

[SBXVII]

^Can't get any worse? does Detroit ring a bell?...0-16. I think we will be better next year though. Atleast I'm trying to hold out hope. I still would like to see the team bring in new young WR's and call it open camp or what ever. Make known the only jobs not on the line are Moss and ARE. Scare Thomas and Kelly into working their arsses off and then hope that some decent young talent comes out of it for the future.

Oh and get a new WR's coach.