Reasons for drafting Sanchez

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Nice post...I said some similar things about the true scarcity of elite QBs some time ago but the discussion just got minced up into semantics and whatnot.

...I still hope JC is our QB for the future and Danny is forced to eat humble pie. And just the same I'm very curious to see all the reaction when Jason has a better season than both Cutler (on his new team w/o all the talent around him and in his new division that has some serious defenses) and Sanchez, wherever he might land.

Heck yes!

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

While we are applying that absurd standard to our quarterbacks, running them out of town for not being generationally elite when, really, maybe three guys per generation actually are, teams are winning superbowls with guys like Brad Johnson, or Eli Manning, or Dilfer, or Brady and Roethlesberger in their first go rounds, or getting there with reclamation projects like Kurt Warner or Rich Gannon.

Does anyone here think Jason is going to the hall of fame? That he'll ever even be top 10 yet alone elite? That his well-discussed flaws can be coached away or overcome through perserverence? I don't, but if there's any team that should have the historical perspective to recognize that you don't necessarily need elite quarterback talent to be successful, it's us right?

In my opinion, Sanchez, like Cutler, would be an upgrade over Campbell. But that's an irrelevant standard as well. The question is not is there some theoretical quarterback better than the one we have? Instead, we have to ask is someone like Sanchez better than Campbell and the 2 or 3 other critical players you forego the right to acquire.

I just think when you invest as much as we already have in Campbell, both in terms of time and draft picks, you have to see things to their conclusion.

I think the conclusion has come and gone. Prior to last yr people were complaining about his slow throwing motion, that he can't read defenses, and does not throw the ball prior to the WR making his cut. He's had what 5 yrs and started 4. Didn't Eli come out the same yr? I understand Eli has had the same offense for several yrs running but JC should be showing some improvement in his ability to read defenses. Improvement in the speed at which he releases the ball. Improvement in his abiblity to get the ball out prior to the WR making his cut so the ball will be where it needs to be when the WR gets there with out having to reach behind to get it or stop. I don't care what system he was in each one he needed to be able to go through all his reads and he's still slow at doing that. 5 yrs. How much longer do you want? 1 more yr? Maybe resign him and see what he has after 3 yrs in the same system?

The things I have mentioned we should have seen improvement from yr to yr. 5yrs later and he still has the same issues. Oh wait he did cut down on his interceptions. He's basically a decent QB not a great QB. or at the least a great backup.

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I think the conclusion has come and gone. Prior to last yr people were complaining about his slow throwing motion, that he can't read defenses, and does not throw the ball prior to the WR making his cut. He's had what 5 yrs and started 4. Didn't Eli come out the same yr? I understand Eli has had the same offense for several yrs running but JC should be showing some improvement in his ability to read defenses. Improvement in the speed at which he releases the ball. Improvement in his abiblity to get the ball out prior to the WR making his cut so the ball will be where it needs to be when the WR gets there with out having to reach behind to get it or stop. I don't care what system he was in each one he needed to be able to go through all his reads and he's still slow at doing that. 5 yrs. How much longer do you want? 1 more yr? Maybe resign him and see what he has after 3 yrs in the same system?

The things I have mentioned we should have seen improvement from yr to yr. 5yrs later and he still has the same issues. Oh wait he did cut down on his interceptions. He's basically a decent QB not a great QB. or at the least a great backup.

He's started 2 and a half years with one year cut short by injury.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

[/B]

I think the conclusion has come and gone. Prior to last yr people were complaining about his slow throwing motion, that he can't read defenses, and does not throw the ball prior to the WR making his cut. He's had what 5 yrs and started 4. Didn't Eli come out the same yr? I understand Eli has had the same offense for several yrs running but JC should be showing some improvement in his ability to read defenses. Improvement in the speed at which he releases the ball. Improvement in his abiblity to get the ball out prior to the WR making his cut so the ball will be where it needs to be when the WR gets there with out having to reach behind to get it or stop. I don't care what system he was in each one he needed to be able to go through all his reads and he's still slow at doing that. 5 yrs. How much longer do you want? 1 more yr? Maybe resign him and see what he has after 3 yrs in the same system?

The things I have mentioned we should have seen improvement from yr to yr. 5yrs later and he still has the same issues. Oh wait he did cut down on his interceptions. He's basically a decent QB not a great QB or a great backup.

With all respect, you've got things scrambled. Eli came out in 2004, JC came out in 2005. You talk about 5 years but 5 years ago JC was a junior at Auburn. He sat behind Brunell for some time. Last year was his first full year as a starter. JC has seriously improved when given the chance. His improvement is better than you credit and his NFL time line is shorter than you suggest.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I think the conclusion has come and gone. Prior to last yr people were complaining about his slow throwing motion, that he can't read defenses, and does not throw the ball prior to the WR making his cut. He's had what 5 yrs and started 4. Didn't Eli come out the same yr? I understand Eli has had the same offense for several yrs running but JC should be showing some improvement in his ability to read defenses. Improvement in the speed at which he releases the ball. Improvement in his abiblity to get the ball out prior to the WR making his cut so the ball will be where it needs to be when the WR gets there with out having to reach behind to get it or stop. I don't care what system he was in each one he needed to be able to go through all his reads and he's still slow at doing that. 5 yrs. How much longer do you want? 1 more yr? Maybe resign him and see what he has after 3 yrs in the same system?

The things I have mentioned we should have seen improvement from yr to yr. 5yrs later and he still has the same issues. Oh wait he did cut down on his interceptions. He's basically a decent QB not a great QB. or at the least a great backup.

What is that conclusion? That Campbell's good when the rest of the team is good but not good enough to overcome breakdowns and injuries on the offensive line and receiving corpse? That he's effective when given time to throw but not good enough to win games by himself? That sounds an awful lot like the previous superbowl winning quarterbacks I mentioned.

If you are suggesting that Campbell has already crossed the bust line you are dreaming. If you are suggesting that it's worth mortgaging the future of the team for the chance to acquire a QB who might possibly not have Campbell's flaws (but who of course might have his own) you are, imo, as misguided as our owner.

Again, it's not enough just to criticize Campbell or compare him to other guys. You have to argue how it makes sense to give up what it will take to replace him, and nobody has been able to do that effectively yet.

[skins89moss]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Amen. I said this in another thread, but on some level I'm really trying to convince myself that drafting Sanchez might not be such a bad idea after all.

And you make a good point about Jason's demeanor. I think we all have to ask ourselves this question: What are the actual chances that Jason is destined to be an absolute superstar headed for Super Bowl MVP awards and a spot in the Hall of Fame? Doesn't someone like that have to show us more than what we've seen? Even when things around him aren't perfect, like the best O-line in the league and Pro Bowl wideouts? The truly great quarterbacks have something that makes everyone around them better.

Could it be that maybe, just maybe, Jason Campbell isn't that quarterback, and that he may never be?

Hang on now we need a super star QB to win a Super Bowl? Well Warren Moon was is a HOF QB and he never played in a Super Bowl.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

Amen. I said this in another thread, but on some level I'm really trying to convince myself that drafting Sanchez might not be such a bad idea after all.

And you make a good point about Jason's demeanor. I think we all have to ask ourselves this question: What are the actual chances that Jason is destined to be an absolute superstar headed for Super Bowl MVP awards and a spot in the Hall of Fame? Doesn't someone like that have to show us more than what we've seen? Even when things around him aren't perfect, like the best O-line in the league and Pro Bowl wideouts? The truly great quarterbacks have something that makes everyone around them better.

Could it be that maybe, just maybe, Jason Campbell isn't that quarterback, and that he may never be?

We do not need JC to be that. Peyton Mannings are few and far between. We just need JC to be a solid starter that we can build a winner around. As far as I am concerned, signs are favorable that JC can fill this more realistic role.

[SBXVII]

On a funny side note another reason to move up and draft him would be from Wiki.....

In April 2006, Sanchez was arrested after a female USC student accused him of sexual assault.[12][13] He was released from jail the following day, after posting $200,000 bail, but USC placed him on interim suspension that suspended him from the football team yet permitted him to take his semester finals, albeit separate from the general student body and under the supervision of campus security.[14] On June 3, 2006, the Los Angeles County District Attorney's office announced no charges would be filed against Sanchez due to a "lack of sufficient evidence beyond a reasonable doubt", noting the case was "essentially a 'one-on-one' allegation."[15][16] The District Attorney's office released the charge evaluation worksheet that said the alleged victim in the case said she consented to kissing and petting on Sanchez's bed, and that she repeatedly refused Sanchez's advances to have intercourse with her but continued the other activities with him when he complied; the woman later spent time with other students without mentioning an incident and later told her mother who reportedly called police later in the morning.[12][13] The woman involved left the university.[17] Sanchez was required to take a rape awareness class at USC.[18] USC reinstated Sanchez but he remained subject to team-related discipline for underage drinking and using fake identification on the night he was arrested.[15] Sanchez had been previously detained but not arrested by USC's Department of Public Safety for allegedly breaking a window at a fraternity party. Prosecuters were not allowed to use Sanchez's record of high school activities of a similar nature in pursuing cases against him.[14]

I know you guys are gunna blast me saying it's not funny, but to have two, not one, but two QB's on the team with similar issues in college. funny.

Colt Brennan from Wiki.....

On January 28, 2004, Brennan entered the dorm room of a female UC student, uninvited, and, according to the victim, "exposed himself and fondled her',"[5] a charge which Brennan denied.[6] Brennan, who was intoxicated at the time of the incident, was arrested and eventually convicted of charges of felony burglary and trespassing[7] (serving one week in jail along with probation until he graduated from college), but a guilty verdict for unlawful sexual contact was vacated by the court for lack of evidence.[1] After the incident, which was caught up in the middle of the time when UC was flooded with other accusations of sex crimes and revelations of wild recruiting parties involving Colorado football players, he was kicked off the team

[The Goat]

No, I don't think that shit is funny. Saw athletes get away w/ all kinds of terrible stuff in college when the athletic director/staff got involved...

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by The Goat

No, I don't think that shit is funny. Saw athletes get away w/ all kinds of terrible stuff in college when the athletic director/staff got involved...

I didn't go to college so I can't say I have seen anything. but at the high school level it's sad to see kids get into trouble and get either suspended or kicked out while the let one of the kids that play on a team get into trouble and it's brushed under the carpet. So I guess I agree.

but I have also seen the bad side of these types of crimes where the girl was totally a willing participant in the activities then later had second thoughts and called the police. Or her parents found out some how, usually when they find out they are pregnant, then the girl being scared tells her parents she was not a willing participant and did not want it to happen.

In Colts situation where he supposedly broke into the females room, if true, I hope he was drunk and had no idea what he was doing. Only the police know what the real story may have been. Did she wake up to him fondling her and scream and call the police or is it more like she helped him sneak into her dorm window, later the school found out and she was afraid she would get kicked out so the elaberate story?

In Sanchez's situation it could be date rap but why go to the dorm room? To eliminate any chance you might go to far with something or something might happen that you don't want to happen simply say no I can't go to your dorm room I'll see you tomorrow. but instead they both were alone in a dorm room. Then second thoughts hit the next day and she talks to her mother about what happened and as a parent I know I would be pissed and call the police.

I don't want to sound like I'm blaming the ladies. The true a-hole that rapes a lady needs to be locked up. I just have issues with the situations where the guys thinks all is well and the girl wants to do it also then finds himself being the suspect in an investigation.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I didn't go to college so I can't say I have seen anything. but at the high school level it's sad to see kids get into trouble and get either suspended or kicked out while the let one of the kids that play on a team get into trouble and it's brushed under the carpet. So I guess I agree.

but I have also seen the bad side of these types of crimes where the girl was totally a willing participant in the activities then later had second thoughts and called the police. Or her parents found out some how, usually when they find out they are pregnant, then the girl being scared tells her parents she was not a willing participant and did not want it to happen.

In Colts situation where he supposedly broke into the females room, if true, I hope he was drunk and had no idea what he was doing. Only the police know what the real story may have been. Did she wake up to him fondling her and scream and call the police or is it more like she helped him sneak into her dorm window, later the school found out and she was afraid she would get kicked out so the elaberate story?

In Sanchez's situation it could be date rap but why go to the dorm room? To eliminate any chance you might go to far with something or something might happen that you don't want to happen simply say no I can't go to your dorm room I'll see you tomorrow. but instead they both were alone in a dorm room. Then second thoughts hit the next day and she talks to her mother about what happened and as a parent I know I would be pissed and call the police.

I don't want to sound like I'm blaming the ladies. The true a-hole that rapes a lady needs to be locked up. I just have issues with the situations where the guys thinks all is well and the girl wants to do it also then finds himself being the suspect in an investigation.

I hear you...there are injustices from both situations no doubt.

[Superman13732]

The hope that he will be able to do what Campbell has failed at, being a leader, and Super bowl rings.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Superman13732

The hope that he will be able to do what Campbell has failed at, being a leader, and Super bowl rings.

Mark Sanchez? Please, keep dreaming.

[CRedskinsRule]

to answer the thread question:

none.

even if he were the perfect qb, which he is not, you basically would have to give away to much to get him, and then you screw the locker room up. As it is now, most players will rally for Campbell. Maybe the two who need not be named will step up their play for his sake. but bring a Sanchez in, and trade the world for him, and the locker room just goes to pot. I do have one scenario where I would take though. He falls to us, we trade down, to 16, pick up a third and still take him. Otherwise, no there is no reason to take Sanchez this year.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

to answer the thread question:

none.

even if he were the perfect qb, which he is not, you basically would have to give away to much to get him, and then you screw the locker room up. As it is now, most players will rally for Campbell. Maybe the two who need not be named will step up their play for his sake. but bring a Sanchez in, and trade the world for him, and the locker room just goes to pot. I do have one scenario where I would take though. He falls to us, we trade down, to 16, pick up a third and still take him. Otherwise, no there is no reason to take Sanchez this year.

So the locker room revolts because they like Campbell so much?

I think this gets overblown. These guys are professionals and they know it's a business. They aren't going to sabotage themselves and their careers because they have some sort of irrational devotion to one player.