Michael Vick in Talks to Become PETA Spokesman

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by tdSKINS1

Your going to say I'm sucking his dick when your spitting out stats just like I have the only difference is that I think he is not only a great athlete but a pretty good QB. All I said in the beginning was look at what he has done sucessfully and I think taking your team deep in the playoffs and making consecutive pro bowls at least validates you as a pretty good quarterback. I never condoned what he did I think it was awful however he deserves a second chance and I think that chance should be at QB. So go ahead and suck some Earthquake dick like you have been

Hmmmm.........interesting. Pool for "ban" date and duration?

[SmootSmack]

I'd like to start a poll...

"Which Currently Unemployed Quarterback Do We Talk About Way Too Much?"

A. Brett Favre
B. Michael Vick

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'd like to start a poll...

"Which Currently Unemployed Quarterback Do We Talk About Way Too Much?"

A. Brett Favre
B. Michael Vick

Would you rather be talking about Todd Collins for QB campaign? Or how about Colt?

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

It's amazing how much we as human being elevate the animal kingdom to human status. Nice to know he's a piece of shit to you and to wonder what you think about all those people in the Asian countries who catch, kill, cook, and eat dog in order to survive.

Do you think at any point in time there will be an "Insect Rights Organization"? One has to wonder about all those kids out there putting the black ants with the red ones. Heck on Youtube they have insect fighting match's. You all should check out the one with the Black widow and the scorpion.

I just hope some of you all are not god fearing people. Simply put the whole Christianity thing is based off of Loving thy neighbor as you love yourself, and forgiveness.

Sorry about the whole religious soap box but as for myself I like to think "some" people can change. Now this is all left up to the psychiatrists. If he shows tendencies toward wanting to rape or murder people then Houston we have a problem. If it was soley monitary based and sport, although sick, then he's paid a heavier price then most people who harm animals. Lost job, lost pay, lost money from advertising, lost his house, spent time in jail. The majority of the cruelty to animal suspects simply pay a fine, jail time is plea bargined and usually only serve up to a yr.

Do I feel sorry for him. Only in the fact that he's being made out to be the example, but the example is a fassad. People go to court every working day across america as suspects of animal cruelty and get their hands slapped. They keep their jobs, their homes, and spend less time in jail if they get any. Simply cause his pretty little face is well known, and he has money(had money) they rail road him to say see we are tough on animal cruelty. I would have like to see how people would have reacted to him getting the same treatment as most....365 days jail-355 days suspended, 500 dollar fine, community services, 3 yrs good behavior and maybe counceling. Of course this would be for a first time offender......wait that's what Vick is.

Virginia Dog Breeder Guilty Of Animal Abuse | Itchmo: News For Dogs & Cats

Animal cruelty charges dropped against JCC man - Topix

http://www.nationalaglawcenter.org/a...lysisindex.pdf

Bluefield Daily Telegraph, Bluefield, WV - Strong, clear message — Virginia seeks tougher animal abuse law

I understand his charges were brought by the Feds instead of the state but how many times do they step up and take animal cruelty charges?

EDIT: This is the story from the second one. Note his punishment was very similar to what I mentioned.

Animal cruelty charges dropped against JCC man - WTKR

Hunting and slaughtering animals is different than fighting them. Hunters and slaughter houses shoot or kill the animal as quickly as possible so it doesn't suffer. That's why we aim for the heart. Eating dogs is no big deal. Scum bag Vick on the other hand drowned, electrocuted, and hung the dogs when they lost a fight. So don't give me that BS about people eating dogs in China.

Don't give me that BS that they made him into a Martyr. There are people rotting in jail right now for fighting dogs and cocks, growing pot, brewing shine, and all sorts of crimes. Just because you can find some people that had their hands slapped doesn't mean they're the majority or they were being unfair to Vick.

When a gambling operation or any other illegal activity crosses state lines, like scum bag Vick's did, it becomes a Federal matter by law.

WTF does Christianity have to do with this?

Scum bag Vick hasn't lost all of his schwag. The reason the bankrupcy judge didn't allow him to file was because he hasn't sold his mansion and he still has a fleet of cars. He had the nerve to tell the judge he was going to work a construction job for ten dollars an hour, yeah right. No one bought that BS.

Just because scum bag Vick got out of lock down doesn't mean he gets to automatically just start back up where he left off. He can't vote, own a gun, or work at a lot of places by Federal and Virginia law. That was his fault, no one else's.

Fighting dogs is one thing, hanging them is another. If the dog is all torn up at least have the GD common courtesy to blow it's brains out or put it to sleep. Vick is more of a degenerate animal than the ones he fought. May he never wear a Redskin's or any other team's uniform.

This has never been about dog fighting, at least to me. It's about torturing the defenseless for no good GD reason.

F Bros Vick and the people who apologize for them. Some of the same people who make excuses for Vick are the same ones who cry about those filthy animals down in Gitmo that incenerated 3000 Americans. You make me want to vomit. :vomit: and that's from the heart.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'd like to start a poll...

"Which Currently Unemployed Quarterback Do We Talk About Way Too Much?"

A. Brett Favre
B. Michael Vick

C. Both

[SBXVII]

#1. I was never talking about hunters. Don't know how hunting came up. In Asia they raise, kill, cook, and eat dog. Nothing said about hunting. I don't hunt but I do respect peoples rights to hunt.

#2. I'd like to know how many people go to jail vs peole who don't. I'm betting the latter is a bigger majority. I found proof from Virginia news or newspapers I saw none from your point of view. I'm telling you I see this all the time in courts and they are given a slap on the hand. Perhaps we need to be harder on them to try to deter them. All I was saying and making a point about is Vick is getting hammered while other get off. The punishments are never consistent and part of that problem is between county to county and state to state. In this case the Feds got involved cause the locals failed to start an investigation. Now he's doing Federal time instead of facing local state punishment.

#3. I'm not a church going man, but having said that are we not supposed to forgive? Don't we get judged like we judge others.

#4.Vick has one of two things to do. Pay his bills or not be able to pay his bills and look to salvage whatever he has. Anyone would do the same thing. Now the question is can he still live in the lifestyle he was living in? Most likely not cause he's not getting paid and he has had to fork out a ton for his defense. So, anyone in his position would have filed Bankrupcy. I'll also bet his Attorneys suggested it. I have no clue as to his car issues.

#5. I never said it wasn't his fault. I said "if" I felt sorry for him about anything it was about how his case is not being treated as consistant as others. Having said that it is his fault. He's paid his due. He did jail time that others usually don't do. He's lost his job which other usually don't have to worry about. He has no income other then selling off his crap which other usually don't have to do. Your right, he will never be able to vote, run for any office, or have a gun to "hunt" or protect his family. His price is a big one compaired to others. All I'm suggesting is lets get off this mans balls and go after all the others out there who are not getting hammered for their crimes.

#6. Perhaps your closer to his home town then me and get more info from the local papers but I never heard anything about him hanging dogs. I heard he was fighting them and several still had the scars. He drowned one or two dogs in a torturous manner and then they were located barried on the property. I'm not saying it's not sick to do what he has done or what you have said he has done. It is. My issue is that for some people they would rather lock up everyone and throw away the key. Our prisons can't hold everyone and if we do that at some point they will most likely be let out into general public. I would like to think that we as a society are doing something in order to make him see his wrong doing other then letting him sit in a cell and weight lift all day. Otherwise he will come out no different then the way he went in. And in doing so I would like to think we as a society would give the individual a chance at making money to raise his family or future family with a half decent job. His talent is football. I expect he would have something to do with football. Maybe you would like for it to be at the high school level to influence our youth.

#7. I'm not making excuses for him. I never said his parents brought this all on. I never said he was forced to do this. I admit it was a choice he made. A piss poor choice. Maybe even have had the same treatment his dogs had but the courts chose to impose the sentence he got. Which in reality is worse then what most are getting is all I pointed out. As far as the filthy animals at Gitmo? I never heard of 3000 Americans getting incinerated. If recolection is correct is not Gitmo the prison on Cuba that we are using to house terrorist? I feel no pain for them. We are or were at war. War is not friendly. War is not about being pampered. Our problem as a society is we have people who for whatever reason push the issue that everyone who comes to America or is on American soil should have all the benifits of our Bill of Rights. Everyone should get constitutional right and I totally disagree. What makes us different from them having been born in America? What privildges do I have for being born here? At this point in time nothing. If not born here then individuals should only get "Human Rights." Treated humane, not beaten, and medical care. That's it.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

It's amazing how much we as human being elevate the animal kingdom to human status. Nice to know he's a piece of shit to you and to wonder what you think about all those people in the Asian countries who catch, kill, cook, and eat dog in order to survive.

Trample provided a great response, but I'd like to respond also.

In case you didn't read my post thoroughly; "Anyone who can do the things he did for enjoyment is a piece of shit." I feel for people in poor countries who kill dogs to eat, but they aren't causing the dogs to suffer or be killed for their enjoyment, they're doing it for survival. I eat meat so I've got no problem with animals being killed for food, however they should be killed in a humane way, not made to suffer.

Do you think at any point in time there will be an "Insect Rights Organization"? One has to wonder about all those kids out there putting the black ants with the red ones. Heck on Youtube they have insect fighting match's. You all should check out the one with the Black widow and the scorpion.

This is one hell of a stretch between kids killing ants and a F-ing major dogfighting ring, give me a break

I just hope some of you all are not god fearing people. Simply put the whole Christianity thing is based off of Loving thy neighbor as you love yourself, and forgiveness.

I am a Christian. This has nothing to do with "loving thy neighbor" and "forgiveness". I hope Vick is truly remorseful for what he did and when he meets the good Lord, he's forgiven. But I'm not a naive idiot either, I don't believe for a second he's got an ounce of remorse. For him to have all the gifts God bestowed on him and then to be a piss-poor steward of those gifts, not to mention willfully and purposefully for "KICKS" cause such pain and suffering to God's creatures is inexcusable.

if it was soley monitary based and sport, although sick, then he's paid a heavier price then most people who harm animals. Lost job, lost pay, lost money from advertising, lost his house, spent time in jail. The majority of the cruelty to animal suspects simply pay a fine, jail time is plea bargined and usually only serve up to a yr.

Most people convicted of dogfighting aren't multi-millionaire NFL QBs.

Do I feel sorry for him. Only in the fact that he's being made out to be the example, but the example is a fassad. People go to court every working day across america as suspects of animal cruelty and get their hands slapped. They keep their jobs, their homes, and spend less time in jail if they get any. Simply cause his pretty little face is well known, and he has money(had money) they rail road him to say see we are tough on animal cruelty. I would have like to see how people would have reacted to him getting the same treatment as most....365 days jail-355 days suspended, 500 dollar fine, community services, 3 yrs good behavior and maybe counceling. Of course this would be for a first
time offender......wait that's what Vick is.

Vick's sentence was in-line for the most part with what others convicted of the same crimes get. The loss of job, home, $$$ had nothing to do with a court imposed sentence it was loss of sponsorships and having to pay back a signing bonus. Vick signed a contract which I'm sure had a personal conduct policy, he violated it and paid the price. F-him.

EDIT: Based on your own link (#3), Vick's sentence was in the mid-range of sentencing guidlines for Virginia.

I just don't get why you're defending this heartless moron. Do you understand what dogfighting is and what the animals are put through, not just in the fights but how they live and are handled? Could you stand by and watch a dogfight or kill a dog by drowning or smashing it on the floor after it has done what you trained it to do and it gave every ounce of energy it could for it's master but it's torn to shreds and still wanting to try to fight because it knows that's what it's master wants? That's what Vick was doing, again for FUN. Vick doesn't have a single ounce of compassion in him and he makes me F-ing sick.

EDIT: Anyone who does this make me F-ing sick, it's not just Vick.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'd like to start a poll...

"Which Currently Unemployed Quarterback Do We Talk About Way Too Much?"

A. Brett Favre
B. Michael Vick

A. Brett Farve :frusty:

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I would like to think that we as a society are doing something in order to make him see his wrong doing other then letting him sit in a cell and weight lift all day. Otherwise he will come out no different then the way he went in. And in doing so I would like to think we as a society would give the individual a chance at making money to raise his family or future family with a half decent job. His talent is football. I expect he would have something to do with football. Maybe you would like for it to be at the high school level to influence our youth.

There's your problem, you think government or society can change an individual's mind-set. It rarely happens, that's why the recidivism rate for criminals is so high. Vick may not fight dogs again, but it will have nothing to do with some animal-sensitivity training or counseling. It will be because of the punishment and losses he took.

http://www.cor.state.pa.us/stats/lib...sm%20Study.pdf

No one is saying Vick shouldn't be allowed to hold a job, he just shouldn't be re-instated to the NFL. There are several other football leagues he could try out for, CFL, AFL, etc. He has college credits on his resume, not sure what he majored in, maybe he could go out and get a job like the rest of us.

[CRedskinsRule]

You do realize, that your link, is from 2002, and the study ended in 1994. Not debating the point of recidivism rates(though, i think it's there's more to it than your comment implies), just that the stats you are using are about 15yrs old or older.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

You do realize, that your link, is from 2002, and the study ended in 1994. Not debating the point of recidivism rates(though, i think it's there's more to it than your comment implies), just that the stats you are using are about 15yrs old or older.

I know the study is old, but I wanted to have something from the Fed to emphasize my point and that was the quickest thing I could find. If there are more recent numbers that show a significant change, I'd be surprised.

Nothing more to my point than social programs and "touchy feely" stuff doesn't usually work to change a person's mind-set (especially a convicted criminial) once they're adults. I'm a Crim Justice major and the only proven thing that deters crime is punishment that is swift, certain and severe. The deterence of crime due to the fear of punishment, isn't changing a person's mind-set though. The whole thing is a re-emphasis of my point that I don't believe for a second Vick is truly remorseful for what he did or that he's changed. I'm sure he's sorry...a sorry excuse for a person and he's sorry he got caught.

[Hog1]

Once and for all, I think the principal issue that seperates MV from those that have a more legitimate use (albeit disgusting) of "dog" and in general.....animals is HOW they were dispatched. It is my understanding that Vick and his companero's often employed tortuous methods to accomplish this.......ex choking, drowning, etc for their own amusement.
I cannot say how those of the asian and other cultures "do in" soon to be dinner, but I can say I have never seen a hunter down by the "crick" drowning or choking Bambe to death. Those that would do these acts are SICK SOB's
A few months in the pen is doubtful to change such........severe character issues. I have no problem with him getting a job as he has paid his debt under the law.
I DO have a problem with him playing this charade out in public SOLEY for the $$$$$$.....see, I good now! no bad. I no choke innocent dogs to death for fun. I no drown innocent dogs to death for fun. I good, see PETA love me.
Wake up, it's about the $$$, nothing more........MV is on sick MF...er
DOUBTFUL to change

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Hog1

Once and for all, I think the principal issue that seperates MV from those that have a more legitimate use (albeit disgusting) of "dog" and in general.....animals is HOW they were dispatched. It is my understanding that Vick and his companero's often employed tortuous methods to accomplish this.......ex choking, drowning, etc for their own amusement.
I cannot say how those of the asian and other cultures "do in" soon to be dinner, but I can say I have never seen a hunter down by the "crick" drowning or choking Bambe to death. Those that would do these acts are SICK SOB's
A few months in the pen is doubtful to change such........severe character issues. I have no problem with him getting a job as he has paid his debt under the law.
I DO have a problem with him playing this charade out in public SOLEY for the $$$$$$.....see, I good now! no bad. I no choke innocent dogs to death for fun. I no drown innocent dogs to death for fun. I good, see PETA love me.
Wake up, it's about the $$$, nothing more........MV is on sick MF...er
DOUBTFUL to change

Since when was Vick from the dominican republic? LOL.

Everything else I agree with.

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Since when was Vick from the dominican republic? LOL.

Everything else I agree with.

I drifted a little .........far afield.........

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

I know the study is old, but I wanted to have something from the Fed to emphasize my point and that was the quickest thing I could find. If there are more recent numbers that show a significant change, I'd be surprised.

Nothing more to my point than social programs and "touchy feely" stuff doesn't usually work to change a person's mind-set (especially a convicted criminial) once they're adults. I'm a Crim Justice major and the only proven thing that deters crime is punishment that is swift, certain and severe. The deterence of crime due to the fear of punishment, isn't changing a person's mind-set though. The whole thing is a re-emphasis of my point that I don't believe for a second Vick is truly remorseful for what he did or that he's changed. I'm sure he's sorry...a sorry excuse for a person and he's sorry he got caught.

Well, I guess I don't think even the study you provided really shows your point very well. Using your numbers(inverting to show the negative of the study):

32.5(or about 1/3) of the individuals were successfully rehabilitated (never re-entered the "system")

53.1(or over half) were NOT reconvicted in State or Federal Court for a new crime

48.2( or just under half) were NOT returned to prison with or without a new prison sentence (and 26.4% of the "half" that were were sent back were done so on a technical violation which can range from minor to major, but not violations of the criminal law per se).

only 1 in 4 (25.4%) were sent back based on a new crime committed, and convicted of the same.


If you had not said you were studying Criminal Justice, I probably wouldn't care how you felt. But if you are taking the time and effort to enter our nations jurisprudence, then maybe you should look at what the numbers really say. Further, if you take some of the offenses, and account for things like home and stability after incarceration, income levels again after incarceration, you would find the truth is that recidivism comes not just from a simplistic "deterence of crime due to the fear" but from a whole spectrum of "touchy feely" and "fear of punishment".

32.5% were re-habilitated without ever re-entering the system. Yes that is not 100%, but it is 1 in 3 people, real people who move forward in our society and overcome social and economic stigma of being a felon. So please, whatever you are going to do with your Criminal Justice degree, don't base your assumptions of the fact that people can't respond. That would be a false premise.