The Redskins Are Close

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by #56fanatic

I just saw someone put what I was going to say about Dilfer...if he can get a team there, then anyone can..hell they didn't score an offensive touchdown for an entire month. Look, Campbell is doing what Zorn is asking. He is NOT taking shots down the field (in my opinion) because he doesn't want to risk turning the ball over, so he'll check down to the shorter receiver. I guess the option we have is, do we want a guy that isn't going to throw the ball down field into double coverage just for a possible completion or more like a pick (Jake Delhoume, Jay Cutler, Brett Favre) or someone that is going to see its not there, check down and try another shot later in the game? There is a lot of risk reward with throwing deep, and yes he has missed a couple of throws, but I think once he gets confidence in Kelly and Thomas we'll see a lot more deep balls over the season, then the offense will be one of the best in the league.

Though that sounds great I think this is a unrealistic fantasy. I just don't see how a team gets 100% better on their worst aspect.

What you're talking about would take a Hollywood montage to accomplish. I can see them connecting a little more and then perhaps becoming 10-20% more efficient but as for becoming one of the league's best...that is laughable.

Also Campbell's deep accuracy is terrible so that makes this hopeful outcome even more bleak.

[GridIron26]

Well, it IS possible for JC to improve lot in throwing deep balls area.. It is supposed to be one of his assets, he has big arm.. But becoming one of the best in the league when JC tweaks out with Thomas and Kelly; I don't see it happening this year.. However, if JC stays here next year then yes, I can see it happening next year..

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

Though that sounds great I think this is a unrealistic fantasy. I just don't see how a team gets 100% better on their worst aspect.

What you're talking about would take a Hollywood montage to accomplish. I can see them connecting a little more and then perhaps becoming 10-20% more efficient but as for becoming one of the league's best...that is laughable.

Also Campbell's deep accuracy is terrible so that makes this hopeful outcome even more bleak.

How many deep passes do we complete now? Getting 100% better is really not that hard. You don't have to complete a ton of deep passes to make your offense more effective.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by GridIron26

Well, it IS possible for JC to improve lot in throwing deep balls area.. It is supposed to be one of his assets, he has big arm.. But becoming one of the best in the league when JC tweaks out with Thomas and Kelly; I don't see it happening this year.. However, if JC stays here next year then yes, I can see it happening next year..

That's the worst thing too. Campbell can get it there, he has no problem with that but he has no refined accuracy to where it needs to go.

We've seen already in the preseason (inaccurate deep pass to Kelly) and in the opening Rams snap (underthrown pass to Kelly) that Campbell has deep accuracy issues.

That really limits us but his knack for short to mid range completions and his scramble capabilities makes him our best QB.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

How many deep passes do we complete now? Getting 100% better is really not that hard. You don't have to complete a ton of deep passes to make your offense more effective.

Yeah, but us getting 100% better on offense wouldn't make us the top offenses in the league.

Check out the next time Campbell throws deep to Moss and obviously doesn't get it there. Look at Moss's reaction. He's so dejected because he knows he's open on a lot of those downfield plays. He knows he won't get many deep passes thrown to him during a game so he gets so frustrated.


He's dropped his fair share of opportunities but I still kinda of feel bad for him.

[12thMan]

Reading some of these posts, like I said, you would think Campbell was Jake Delhomme. And he's not. No one completes 100% of their deep balls. Heck, not even 50%! We just need to start taking the shots down the field and the catches will come. This isn't a JC can't hit this guy or that guy issue, it's a taking the chance issue. As far as I'm concerned that's on Jim Zorn.

But you have don't believe me, go over to NFL.com and see how many quarterbacks have completions over 40 yards this year.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Reading some of these posts, like I said, you would think Campbell was Jake Delhomme. And he's not. No one completes 100% of their deep balls. Heck, not even 50%! We just need to start taking the shots down the field and the catches will come. This isn't a JC can't hit this guy or that guy issue, it's a taking the chance issue. As far as I'm concerned that's on Jim Zorn.

But you have don't believe me, go over to NFL.com and see how many quarterbacks have completions over 40 yards this year.

Perhaps not but JC really cannot hit people in stride. I know this comparison is unfair but watch Brees throw down the field. He's making connections with people in stride. Now that is best in the league doing it but players like Romo and Eli Manning are doing timing routes down the field that are connecting with people in stirde.

JC has not been able to connect more than 15+ yards down the field with anybody in stride. The Randle El leaping grab to me is not in stride, by the way.

All of JC's throws are to receivers who have dropped into a zone and are basically in a stationary spot on the field. Now whether that is because of Zorn's lack of trust or whatever, who knows, but JC's stride connections are simply not happening.

[12thMan]

Ture, Skinny. What I'm saying, and not very clearly, is that even Brees got good at throwing that type of ball by doing it. Jason Campbell has to get good by doing it. Yes, Brees is probably the ultimate example but we don't need Campbell to be Breesesque. I just want him to be good at what he's good at and do one or two things great.

Bottom line, they simply need to take more shots down field. The timing is a result of repetition, I think.

[44Deezel]

Campbell hasn't even been close on any ball that has had to travel longer than 20 yards in the air. I don't necessarily blame Zorn, although he's not earned even the benefit of the doubt at this point. But it's not like he only calls plays where every route is 5-10 yards deep. There's an intermediate to deep route on just about every pass play, but Campbell is not one to force a throw into a tight spot. That's good and bad. Good in that he doesn't turn the ball over often and bad in that it forces his team to put together excruciatingly long drives in order to get into the scoring zone. This leads to less possessions, higher degree of difficulty (more plays = more chances for something to eventually go wrong) less pass interference calls (they were last in the league last year) and abysmally low scoring. Bad becomes worse in the end zone, where precision, accuracy, touch and a little aggressiveness is required. Hard to expect a guy who plays it ultra-safe between the 20s to all of a sudden change who he is in the red zone. And the red zone problem is nothing new. The Skins were 4th worse in the league in red zone scoring last year. Yes, Suisham was part of the problem, so spare me the retort.

We've seen Campbell in multiple systems now, and in each he's a plodding down the field 5-10 yards at a time kind of QB. The fact that he protects the ball is AWESOME and would be especially awesome if he played on a team with a dominant running attack and a nasty, all-time great Defense. In that scenario, he would be Trent Dilfer on steroids. The Skins could go undefeated. But as it stands, he plays for a team that needs him to do more, and up to this point, he's proven incapable or unwilling to step up.

And like I said, don't blame Zorn or even the receivers. Even in the Rams game Campbell missed an EASY TD pass on the first play of the game, threw a ball 5 yards out of bounds to Devin Thomas and on his longest throw attempt of the day almost knocked the beer out of a fans hands. Same in the Giants game. His bomb to Santana Moss wasn't within 15 yards of him. Seems like all he's comfortable with right now is the 5-15 yard pass down the middle of the field. Don't tell me Zorn wouldn't have opened up the playbook if Campbell hit Kelly on that first play of the game. Campbell's got to give the coach a reason to have faith in him.

As for Receivers, a lot of teams do exponentially more with shittier receivers. Show me the jump balls they're not getting to first, and then I'll start to believe they're the problem. Tight, single coverage is OPEN to most QBs in the league. Not to JC. If you don't have at least 2 steps on the Defender, you're not getting the ball. Period.

PS - File this under RE-HASH

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Ture, Skinny. What I'm saying, and not very clearly, is that even Brees got good at throwing that type of ball by doing it. Jason Campbell has to get good by doing it. Yes, Brees is probably the ultimate example but we don't need Campbell to be Breesesque. I just want him to be good at what he's good at and do one or two things great.

Bottom line, they simply need to take more shots down field. The timing is a result of repetition, I think.

Brees is great because he does what most QBs do some of the time all of the time. He consistently finds the single coverage and puts the ball where his WR is going to have the best chance of catching it. The Defender could be running a potato sack race with his Receiver and he's still going to throw it.

We all see other QBs throw into tight single coverage a few times a game, giving their Receivers a chance to make a play or draw a pass interference call. What we see a few times a game from most QBs, Brees seems to do with easy regularity.

Just once I'd like to see Campbell throw a ball downfield (doesn't have to be 50 yards either) to a receiver who is covered, and put it in a spot where his Receiver can at least make an attempt on the ball. Right now, he either doesn't make that pass or when he does, it's way friggin off.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Campbell hasn't even been close on any ball that has had to travel longer than 20 yards in the air. I don't necessarily blame Zorn, although he's not earned even the benefit of the doubt at this point. But it's not like he only calls plays where every route is 5-10 yards deep. There's an intermediate to deep route on just about every pass play, but Campbell is not one to force a throw into a tight spot. That's good and bad. Good in that he doesn't turn the ball over often and bad in that it forces his team to put together excruciatingly long drives in order to get into the scoring zone. This leads to less possessions, higher degree of difficulty (more plays = more chances for something to eventually go wrong) less pass interference calls (they were last in the league last year) and abysmally low scoring. Bad becomes worse in the end zone, where precision, accuracy, touch and a little aggressiveness is required. Hard to expect a guy who plays it ultra-safe between the 20s to all of a sudden change who he is in the red zone. And the red zone problem is nothing new. The Skins were 4th worse in the league in red zone scoring last year. Yes, Suisham was part of the problem, so spare me the retort.

We've seen Campbell in multiple systems now, and in each he's a plodding down the field 5-10 yards at a time kind of QB. The fact that he protects the ball is AWESOME and would be especially awesome if he played on a team with a dominant running attack and a nasty, all-time great Defense. In that scenario, he would be Trent Dilfer on steroids. The Skins could go undefeated. But as it stands, he plays for a team that needs him to do more, and up to this point, he's proven incapable or unwilling to step up.

And like I said, don't blame Zorn or even the receivers. Even in the Rams game Campbell missed an EASY TD pass on the first play of the game, threw a ball 5 yards out of bounds to Devin Thomas and on his longest throw attempt of the day almost knocked the beer out of a fans hands. Same in the Giants game. His bomb to Santana Moss wasn't within 15 yards of him. Seems like all he's comfortable with right now is the 5-15 yard pass down the middle of the field. Don't tell me Zorn wouldn't have opened up the playbook if Campbell hit Kelly on that first play of the game. Campbell's got to give the coach a reason to have faith in him.

As for Receivers, a lot of teams do exponentially more with shittier receivers. Show me the jump balls they're not getting to first, and then I'll start to believe they're the problem. Tight, single coverage is OPEN to most QBs in the league. Not to JC. If you don't have at least 2 steps on the Defender, you're not getting the ball. Period.

PS - File this under RE-HASH

Okay, let's be real. We're talking about two games! Someone please tell me EXACTLY how many long balls Cambpell hasn't connected on so far? This year?

Anybody?

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Brees is great because he does what most QBs do some of the time all of the time. He consistently finds the single coverage and puts the ball where his WR is going to have the best chance of catching it. The Defender could be running a potato sack race with his Receiver and he's still going to throw it.

We all see other QBs throw into tight single coverage a few times a game, giving their Receivers a chance to make a play or draw a pass interference call. What we see a few times a game from most QBs, Brees seems to do with easy regularity.

Just once I'd like to see Campbell throw a ball downfield (doesn't have to be 50 yards either) to a receiver who is covered, and put it in a spot where his Receiver can at least make an attempt on the ball. Right now, he either doesn't make that pass or when he does, it's way friggin off.

44Deezel, you've never seen Campbell throw or put the ball to a receiver who's covered since he's been a Redskin? I know I have.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

44Deezel, you've never seen Campbell throw or put the ball to a receiver who's covered since he's been a Redskin? I know I have.

No, not really. And I've seen every pass he's made in a Skins uni. And I'm specifically talking about intermediate to long passes. the 10 yard in the middle of the field to Cooley is great. No denying he can make that pass all day. What I'd like to see more of are passes like the one he missed to Kelly on the first play of the Rams game. That's a pass he should attempt whether Kelly has a step on his Defender or both are running side by side. Give the WR a chance at making the play or drawing a pass interference call. Just to be clear, I'm talking about Jason Campbell. The QB for the Skins. Just want to make sure you're not referring to some other Campbell who plays for a college or CFL team.

[Skinny Tee]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

44Deezel, you've never seen Campbell throw or put the ball to a receiver who's covered since he's been a Redskin? I know I have.

What hurts me are the balls that are thrown deep toward the sidline.

JC forever edges the ball out of bounds and hardly gives the receiver a shot at actually coming down with it. Even now when he throws deep toward the sideline I call it before it gets there...out of bounds...sure enough. : )

God bless JC but his deep accuracy is treacherous.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by Skinny Tee

What hurts me are the balls that are thrown deep toward the sidline.

JC forever edges the ball out of bounds and hardly gives the receiver a shot at actually coming down with it. Even now when he throws deep toward the sideline I call it before it gets there...out of bounds...sure enough. : )

God bless JC but his deep accuracy is treacherous.

Valid criticism. Hopefully, you won't get blasted for pointing out the obvious. Some might think Zorn should have designed the route to be more inbounds or that the receiver should have been able to jump 5 feat in the air or extend their arm 5 yards out of bounds to make a one-handed catch

Or maybe he's just trying to get a cheerleaders attention.