Where are Kelly & Thomas?

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by dmvskinzfan08

Are you having a bad day? LOL

No, why?

[44Deezel]

I heard on the radio that Moss was the only WR to catch a ball against the Bucs. Could that be right? How is that even possible? Not even ARE? Since Kelly can't get separation, or run to a spot or in the seam against zone defenses or catch a screen pass or run a reverse or catch jump balls, can he at least run as fast as he can for 10-15 yards, stop and turn around? Everyone on this board can at least do that, right? It's a simple timing route. Not 1 friggin pass to another WR? Just putrid.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

I heard on the radio that Moss was the only WR to catch a ball against the Bucs. Could that be right? How is that even possible? Not even ARE? Since Kelly can't get separation, or run to a spot or in the seam against zone defenses or catch a screen pass or run a reverse or catch jump balls, can he at least run as fast as he can for 10-15 yards, stop and turn around? Everyone on this board can at least do that, right? It's a simple timing route. Not 1 friggin pass to another WR? Just putrid.

ARE and Devin Thomas hardly played at all (a combined 30 snaps, and some of those were runs). So that only leaves Kelly and Moss.

Kelly was targeted twice, and both passes were picked by Talib.

Campbell only completed 12 passes, and 10 were to TEs or backs. Which isn't completely unheard of, especially since the focal point of the Bucs defense was our receivers. Talib on Kelly creates mismatches elsewhere. Unfortunately, we were not able to take advantage of them ever. Ronde Barber looked like he was 28 out there.

[44Deezel]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

ARE and Devin Thomas hardly played at all (a combined 30 snaps, and some of those were runs). So that only leaves Kelly and Moss.

Kelly was targeted twice, and both passes were picked by Talib.

Campbell only completed 12 passes, and 10 were to TEs or backs. Which isn't completely unheard of, especially since the focal point of the Bucs defense was our receivers. Talib on Kelly creates mismatches elsewhere. Unfortunately, we were not able to take advantage of them ever. Ronde Barber looked like he was 28 out there.

Maybe in Pop Warner And it happened because the 30th ranked Defense imposed their will on the Skins O? Oh brother

We may have to resort to throwing to the water boys when we play a legit Defense. They'll take everyone away.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by 44Deezel

Maybe in Pop Warner And it happened because the 30th ranked Defense imposed their will on the Skins O? Oh brother

We may have to resort to throwing to the water boys when we play a legit Defense. They'll take everyone away.

Well, I mean, it's very disappointing that even the worst defenses can take our No. 3, 4, and 5 options away completely, but I mean, if you're playing two receivers most of the time (and we were), how many defenses aren't going to be able to take one away?

The only matchups they really won were Aqib Talib against Malcolm Kelly, and Ronde Barber against Santana Moss. Moss killed Talib when they got that matchup. And if Campbell had simply been more accurate, we probably could have exploited them a lot more.

[JLee9718]

Bring on Marko Mitchell! Bring back Champ Bailey!!! I cannot believe Joe Gibbs traded him AND a 2nd round draft choice for CP! Good corners are hard to find, and Hall of Fame corners are keepers! Also, we could've drafted a solid offensive lineman with that 2nd rounder.

[jamf]

I think the issue is that these guys are still on the team. There are 10 WRs drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round of the 2008 draft who contribute to their teams or atleast show flashes of ability. We see nothing in return from Kelly and Thomas.
I'm concerned that Cerrato won't cut a guy he drafted because it would confirm that he made a mistake drafting that player.
Also, Thomas needs to get his butt on special teams. He is too gifted of an athlete to not be a Gunner or returner and it's not like we want to save him for WR.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by jamf

I think the issue is that these guys are still on the team. There are 10 WRs drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round of the 2008 draft who contribute to their teams or atleast show flashes of ability. We see nothing in return from Kelly and Thomas.
I'm concerned that Cerrato won't cut a guy he drafted because it would confirm that he made a mistake drafting that player.
Also, Thomas needs to get his butt on special teams. He is too gifted of an athlete to not be a Gunner or returner and it's not like we want to save him for WR.

They need to be in the position to make plays.. it looks like Zorn is trying to wean Kelly in, but admitted to using Thomas mostly to open up other guys which doesn't make a lot of sense to me

I don't know what's keeping him from getting opportunities other than playcalling.. I guess that you could blame Hixon if he's not developing properly/correcting mistakes/learning..

as far as special teams, no clue... maybe danny smith likes others over him.. though we do use him some in returns

[MTK]

Have any of those guys gone on to be stars elsewhere?

I'm not sure what tossing up a list of camp bodies really shows.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Have any of those guys gone on to be stars elsewhere?

I'm not sure what tossing up a list of camp bodies really shows.

I know this is an endless and fruitless debate and yet...

A WR coming into the league seems like a very risky proposition, even the stars take time to shine. But if you get bad, or even lackluster instruction, when you first come in, you can develop bad habits, or the bad habits you brought with you become entrenched. The question of who shined elsewhere ignores or minimizes the fact that the first opportunity they had to shine is where their lights were turned off. Who knows if any could have shined elsewhere, there record was established here, and no other coaches were able to correct the disasters we had helped churn out.

Do you think that every LB that went to UPenn when it was known as a LB factory would have been great if they hadn't gotten coached up under Paterno? or would have been great if they went to a AA college? Coaching up the greats is a part of a winning tradition. It's what Sherm Lewis has in his repertoire, and what Hixon doesn't. Is it a surprise that a college WR coach would struggle coaching WR's at the NFL level? no more than it is that a rookie WR is amazed at the NFL CB talent level.

The point of the long list is that anyone could do what Hixon has done, which is take mid grade talent and churn out mid-grade results. What we all in the Don't Give Passes To Hixon club want is a WR coach who can take mid-grade talent and churn out positive results at least once in a 5 year span.

the equation:
College level WR Coach + College WR's <> Elite NFL Receiving corp.

(Do we have a spinning wheel icon, because I know the argument falls on deaf ears)

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Have any of those guys gone on to be stars elsewhere?

I'm not sure what tossing up a list of camp bodies really shows.

I'm not trying to say any of them would be as good as CJ, or R.Moss, or T.O. but certainly the Skins should have been able to turn one of them into a half decent WR maybe catching a few balls for first down if nothing else. Instead we have the marry-go-round effect of WR's. I have to think part of the problem is obviously the talent scouts getting crappy talent but more to the point is Hixon could not develope anyone. Could not get any type of production out of them. Our only productive WR's are Moss who was developed with the Jets prior to coming here, ARE who was developed with the Steelers....and thats it. Thomas and Kelly were 2nd round WR's? why aren't they productive?

I have to imagine its whatever Hixon is teaching and or not teaching. How he has them running their routes and how he's teaching them to get seperation. Nothing is working. I like Moss but even (in my eyes) his production under Hixon is getting worse each year. This yr is the only yr that ARE has actually looked like the WR we brought in to help the team.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I'm not trying to say any of them would be as good as CJ, or R.Moss, or T.O. but certainly the Skins should have been able to turn one of them into a half decent WR maybe catching a few balls for first down if nothing else. Instead we have the marry-go-round effect of WR's. I have to think part of the problem is obviously the talent scouts getting crappy talent but more to the point is Hixon could not develope anyone. Could not get any type of production out of them. Our only productive WR's are Moss who was developed with the Jets prior to coming here, ARE who was developed with the Steelers....and thats it. Thomas and Kelly were 2nd round WR's? why aren't they productive?

I have to imagine its whatever Hixon is teaching and or not teaching. How he has them running their routes and how he's teaching them to get seperation. Nothing is working. I like Moss but even (in my eyes) his production under Hixon is getting worse each year. This yr is the only yr that ARE has actually looked like the WR we brought in to help the team.

So why haven't any these guys gone elsewhere and become stars, or even serviceable players?

As for ARE he's had back to back 50+ catch seasons here, with a career high of 53 last year. This year he's on pace for 52.

I can't say if Moss has really improved under Hixon, but I can't say his play has fallen off either. The "down" years he's had here were probably more due to injuries and QB issues more than anything.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Have any of those guys gone on to be stars elsewhere?

I'm not sure what tossing up a list of camp bodies really shows.

Not so much but you don't find a lot of teams willing to take on a guy who couldn't get playing time after a couple of years either.

[MTK]

Ok back to the list of camp bodies... how many of them played elsewhere before getting ruined here by Hixon?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Ok back to the list of camp bodies... how many of them played elsewhere before getting ruined here by Hixon?

I'm not even going to say ruined. Most were probably camp bodies, but the Skins have had a glaring WR problem and all we can bring in is camp bodies? I have to imagine Hixon had some say in to who the team was going to bring in. One would think they would have gone to him and said "hey take a look at this kid and see if you think you can develope him" or "we are looking at this kid what do you think"? I find it hard to believe that Cerrato or whoever is saying "Oh, we need to get another WR, lets just pick this guy up and see what Hixon can do with him." "We need more camp bodies so our regular players won't get hurt in preseason", "lets just keep our revolving door of WR's going and pick up this idget and see what he's got".

Now we have two supposedly talented WR's and possibly a third and we still can't get anything out of them so I guess we must have taken them way too high in the draft cause they are camp fodder also.