Time to Build an Offensive Line

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by PHazard

Why use a 2nd round pick on Jahvid Best? We already have a player with his skill set in Anthony Aldridge. RB coach just needs to coach him up more in holding the ball higher and tighter which i know he can do. Shanahan loves pounding the rock as much as he can but Best isnt an every down back. Why waste a pick as high as 2nd on a committee runner? No Thanx, grab more Olineman help Brown, Ducassee, Campbell, etc

Just to play devils advocate as I want to see either a QB/T or T/OL draft but you draft Best because you have visions of a young Clinton Portis. At the same time though he could easily end up being a flash in the pan like Julius Jones, Kevin Jones, and gasp Tatum Bell.

Personally the idea of drafting a RB this high at this point in time makes me nervous. Maybe if we were more established and were truly one or two pieces away from a Super Bowl, especially since RB's learn quickly in spite of their short shelf life.

[PHazard]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Just to play devils advocate as I want to see either a QB/T or T/OL draft but you draft Best because you have visions of a young Clinton Portis. At the same time though he could easily end up being a flash in the pan like Julius Jones, Kevin Jones, and gasp Tatum Bell.

Personally the idea of drafting a RB this high at this point in time makes me nervous. Maybe if we were more established and were truly one or two pieces away from a Super Bowl, especially since RB's learn quickly in spite of their short shelf life.

Just to play Keanu Reeves, Best isnt the same mold as a Clinton Portis, a Julius Jones, or a Kevin Jones. They are bigger stronger backs who can carry more of the workload. All have been the Main guy at some point in their respected careers. But Best is in the mold of a darren sproles, a leon washington, and an anthony alridge. A change of pace back. Speed that will catch you off guard. So again. No need to use a 2nd round pick on a change of pace back. If Portis goes down to injury, you trust best to take the bulk of the carries? With his past injury history, id say he wouldnt hold up long. If we're keeping portis, you take a 5-7th round pick or Undrafted rookie on a bigger back and use alridge in change of pace situations. Shanahan is the one who suggested him to the redskins. Said Alridge was the fastest player he'd ever seen on the field with a football in his hand. And Shanahan used him well for the 1 season wit Broncos. Hail.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by PHazard

Just to play Keanu Reeves, Best isnt the same mold as a Clinton Portis, a Julius Jones, or a Kevin Jones. They are bigger stronger backs who can carry more of the workload. All have been the Main guy at some point in their respected careers. But Best is in the mold of a darren sproles, a leon washington, and an anthony alridge. A change of pace back. Speed that will catch you off guard. So again. No need to use a 2nd round pick on a change of pace back. If Portis goes down to injury, you trust best to take the bulk of the carries? With his past injury history, id say he wouldnt hold up long. If we're keeping portis, you take a 5-7th round pick or Undrafted rookie on a bigger back and use alridge in change of pace situations. Shanahan is the one who suggested him to the redskins. Said Alridge was the fastest player he'd ever seen on the field with a football in his hand. And Shanahan used him well for the 1 season wit Broncos. Hail.

Keanu,

The comparison to CP was based on the scouting reports of him saying that upon entering the league that he could not be counted on to be an every down back.

Patient runner with great vision and a sense of awareness. Sees the field, waits for blocks to develop then follows them. Displays top footwork in a small area; sidesteps opponents, has some swivel to his runs, showing elusiveness in a small area. Leaves opponents grasping for air and weaves his way through the traffic, finding the small spaces in the defense and getting through them. Looks to set up his blocks either at the line of scrimmage or down the field. Adjusts off the initial hit, breaks arm tackles and quick regaining his balance and getting back to running form. Solid receiver out of the backfield that catches the ball cleanly and runs well after the reception. Does not translate his stop watch speed onto the football field; can not bounce it to the outside, run to daylight nor does he show a burst. Best between the tackles but may not have the size to take an every down pounding. Very productive and a runner who will produce if put in a rotational system that shuffles its backs in and out of the lineup. Late Second Round.

Though yes you're right Best is an outside runner while CP was obviously seen as a between the tackles guy. I wasn't even necessarily coming him skill wise to Kevin, Julius, and CP. Though out of that group Kevin might have been the only "everydown" back.

[SmootSmack]

I'm really interested in seeing how Dwyer does at the combine. If he shows he can keep the weight off I think he's potentially a better choice than Best or Spiller

Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by [B

SmootSmack;665505]I'm really interested in seeing how Dwyer does at the combine. If he shows he can keep the weight off I think he's potentially a better choice than Best or Spiller
[/B]
Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?

I would rather take LeGarette Blount or Dexter McCluster with a later pick

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm really interested in seeing how Dwyer does at the combine. If he shows he can keep the weight off I think he's potentially a better choice than Best or Spiller

Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?

Other than his age, the fit here is too obvious to mention. I would not mind if we brought him in. In the worst case, he teaches the Shanahan method to the young bucks who presumably will be on the roster post-April.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

30gut:
Heyer and Williams were part of an offensive line that was overmatched in just about every game. Heyer is marginal against a pass rush and is less than satisfactory as a run blocker. Did you notice how often the Skins "ran left" on short yardage situations? I'm sure opposing defensive coordinators did. The reason they "ran left" is that Heyer as the RT is not any good at run blocking. He is an emergency player not a starter.

I agree and i said that Heyer was serviceable with the potential to become good. Heyer like i mentioned was playing with a bad knee, a knee injured to the point where he couldn't practice some weeks but he still went out there and battled. Logic tells me that a healthy Heyer will play better then he did last year and although he played hurt Heyer was better then Levi Jones who is considered to be a serviceable player by some (not by me).
I look back at the Heyer I saw at the end on 2008 when Heyer took over the LT spot for an injured Samuels. That is the potential i see for healthy Stephon Heyer not the injured plagued player with a different partner playing next to him almost every week. I think an underrated cause of the Redskins problems on OL was lack of cohesion itself if the same guy would have played RG the enitre season they would have been better then a different gut almost every week.

Williams' participation in games at right guard did not show any measured improvement in pass blocking by the OL and if he ever led a big run play downfield, I must have been distracted because I did not see it.

Well how are we gonna measure improvement? Because if look at the stats from football prospectus he performed better then most of the other OL on our team.
Just as you didn't see him make any pancakes i didn't see him getting pushed back like Rabach or missing many blocks. And don't forget we're talking about a UDFA rookie Center he's going to have a learning curve. Especially when he's playing a new position next to an injured RT and a less then stout Center.

I also never saw him "pancake" any DL in front of him. Sorry, this guy has a LOT of improving to do before he qualifies as a starter on a contending team. How would I describe his play at RG? Marginal

I don't think having 'pancake' blocks was a requirement for being serviceable.
And i agree that he does have a lot of improving to do before he become a starter on a contending team. But guess what? We're not a contending team.
And how different is marginal from serviceable?
How about this: Edwin was marginal talent with upside based on youth?
And i was projecting him at his natural position of Center where he would instantly be more stout then Rabach.

Rinehart has been here for two seasons. He has made it to the field on a Sunday how many times? Three? Four? Five at the most. Remember, he did not play at all in his rookie season... He was hurt this year and missed 6 games due to injury but that leaves 26 games in his career and he only found the field 3-5 times. Evidently, the coaches figured that he was lacking in skills most of the time that they put together their game plans.

How about his actual play? You mention a lot of points about his past but don't comment on how he played. And to my eye when he was in the game he played well. (And again the pro football prospectus support what my eye showed me) he was one of our better OL.

If Williams and Rinehart are "2 bright spots" on the Skins' OL, how come they were not in games very often? And when they were in games, how come the Skins didn't dominate people?

Well if you're paying attention our OL play wasn't very good Levi Jones was on of the worst LT in football and an injured Heyer was slighty better. Therein was the crux of our OL problems imo.
Imo, Rinehart and Williams were bright spots because they're our young OL and possible future and they held their own when they were pressed into duty for the 1st time.

The fact that he was not mentioned for any negatives does not mean he is a "bright spot" on the OL. When you out of the lineup because the coaches think there are better players than you are, you will never be mentioned for any "negatives"; that is not a "positive".

One of the common ways to know if an OL had at least a good game is if his name wasn't mentioned for a) getting beat b) holding or some other penalty.
So i'm gonna have to disagree when your an OL and your name isn't mentioned for something negative that in and of itself is a positive.

I read your original post carefully. I too have been saying that it will be next to impossible to reconstruct the entire OL in a single season. However, I simply cannot subscribe to the notion that the "OL began playing well once the rotating door stopped." The OL did not play well for most of the season; once Samuels and Thomas were hurt, it played poorly to marginally for the rest of the season. That poor-to-marginal play is a major reason the record was 4-12.

I agree for the most part except you're misquoting me i was refering to the interior OL not the enitre OL.

You cut out the beginning of my statement:

Originally Posted by 30gut

And the interior OL began playing well once the rotating door stopped.

And i want to mention imo a major reason for the seemingly improved play from the interior OL could certainly be given to Sherman Lewis playcalling.

I didn't think the interior OL was a big problem to begin with.
And i think we can agree that Doc wasn't a problem?
And although Rabach wasn't as stout as i would like he was much better then the OTs.
That leaves RG and once Montgomery stopped playing i thought the RG play improved.

I don't have a game-by-game breakdown of the interior OL.

But if you want which specific games i would say:
Falcons game where the backs rushed for 96 yards
Broncos backs rushed for 159 yard
Basically i thought the interior OL weeks 9-16 with the exception of the Giants game where the whole team looked disinterested other then Campbell and the Dallas game.

Look you have to build somewhere we can't have a completely new OL and you're not going to have big name players all across the OL but you have to start from somewhere and imo the place to start is the weakest spot. If these players make you feel umcomfortable its all the more reason to take an OT with the 1st so we have an honest chance at improving our OL next year. If it makes you feel better you can view our youth as the least horrible players on the OL who didn't crap themselves when their number was called.



But, believe good OL's are built over time with good coaching and playing time togother as a unit developing chemistry. Every player along the OL isn't going to be a big name player but the have to be able to play and these guys have shown signs and they're young.

HTTR!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?

Yes. But I'd prefer if he had to battle for the job before he got a roster spot guaranteed to him.

[GTripp0012]

Love Monterrio Hardesty in the fourth if Matt Tennant is gone (and if quarterback has been addressed).

[GTripp0012]

Heyer went from one of our worst run blockers in 2008 to one of our best last season. Unfortunately his pass blocking was unimproved from his previous season, and at age 25, he's only a fringe starter in this league.

We'd be better off with Stephon Heyer at RT than with Levi Jones at LT, but only marginally. The larger point that if we ever have to see Stephon Heyer at LT with Mike Williams at RT again, it's time to give up hope.

[tryfuhl]

wiegmann would be fine but if we're robbing the nursing home might as well look at mawae too

[30gut]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I'm really interested in seeing how Dwyer does at the combine. If he shows he can keep the weight off I think he's potentially a better choice than Best or Spiller

Anyone interested in signing Casey Wiegmann?

Yes.
Rabach is a UFA and Wiegmann imo represents an upgrade because of both ability and knowledge of scheme.

He could man the spot until our current centers (Edwin Williams and Lichtensteiger) are ready to take over.

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Heyer went from one of our worst run blockers in 2008 to one of our best last season. Unfortunately his pass blocking was unimproved from his previous season, and at age 25, he's only a fringe starter in this league.

I could agree with fringe starter.
I guess i'm alone in thinking that because he played injured for the beter part of last year and that at 25 years old he could improve from a fringe starter to a decent starter.

I wonder who would be a better RT/LT next year the 6th/7th/8th ranked OT like Ducasse, Brown or Veldeer(sp?) or a healthy Heyer?

We'd be better off with Stephon Heyer at RT than with Levi Jones at LT, but only marginally.

I agree that an injured Heyer is marginally better the Levi Jones.

The larger point that if we ever have to see Stephon Heyer at LT with Mike Williams at RT again, it's time to give up hope.

^^That scares the beejesus out of me and its why i think we should take an OT or trade down and get an OT in in the 1st round.

[CultBrennan59]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Love Monterrio Hardesty in the fourth if Matt Tennant is gone (and if quarterback has been addressed).

Same, but I think between the two, shanny would go with Tennant, since he is being compared to Tom Nalen, the former bronco's all pro center. McShay says Hardesty reminds him of portis though.

[Monkeydad]

Twitter / Jason Reid: The Redskins this week rea ...

via: Casey Rabach



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Argh.

[Monkeydad]

In related news: Casey Wiegmann