Texas wants to rewrite the US History books

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by BleedBurgundy

Ok, now let's debate the validity of:

All of humanity being descended from two people, one of which was made from the other's rib. These two people lived in a wonderful garden, but were tricked into eating mystical fruit by a tricky reptile.

Magic sea creatures that swallow people without digesting them and then spit them out on the beach.

"Angels" committing genocide by murdering the first born sons of a given ethnic group.

The surface tension of water and the associated application to mideastern carpenters.

Ghosts. No really, f'ing ghosts.

Demons, Devils and the like...

Religion is not for the rational mind.

Ever heard of symbolism and poetry - myth and legend? Perhaps these are tools to gaining a deeper understanding of that which drives the universe (if anything does).

With that said, ultimately, you believe in a universe that can be explained through finite means and that we, as humans, could fully discover if given enough time. If that is the leap of faith you wish to make - so be it.

Mine is that there is a truth beyond human understanding which we, as finite beings, can and should work to glimpse but, as finite beings (individually and corporately), can only discover through grace.

Oops. Guess I am not being rational. Silly religious me.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's try to keep things civil here and refrain from personal attacks. Threads the last few days have gotten pretty heated and personal.

If this was aimed at me or if I my words furthered this. I apologize.

JoeT - Specifically, I apologize for the "stupid, ignorant, dumb, mindless, uneducated assertion" comment. Well, except for the "uneducated" part b/c you were, in fact, wrong about your assertion.

Again, sorry to all.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Ever heard of symbolism and poetry - myth and legend? Perhaps these are tools to gaining a deeper understanding of that which drives the universe (if anything does).

With that said, ultimately, you believe in a universe that can be explained through finite means and that we, as humans, could fully discover if given enough time. If that is the leap of faith you wish to make - so be it.

Mine is that there is a truth beyond human understanding which we, as finite beings, can and should work to glimpse but, as finite beings (individually and corporately), can only discover through grace.

Oops. Guess I am not being rational. Silly religious me.

I think there's a balance between religion and logic that no one seems to be able to find. Ironically, I think that as human brains developed (evolution), they began to try to make sense of their surrounding, and this is where religion may have begun (just my assumption, no one bite my head off).

I do have a problem with the mixing of state and religion. This country has not suffered through the centuries of warfare (in our own soil) due to religion, and I think this is why people easily dismiss the problems with religion dictating policy.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by saden1

Are you implying you can't have fun studying?

Back then yes!

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Lotus

Christians did save many works which may have been destroyed in the fall of Rome.

However, ancient Christians also burned the books of Aristotle and Plato, indirectly helping to launch the so-called "Dark Ages." The only reason we still have many of these ancient Greek philosophical classics is because they were saved and studied by medieval Muslims. Of course, Muslims have since burned other books, such as "The Satanic Verses."

I'm agreeing with you, tryfuhl.

Yep, vicious cycle

[joethiesmanfan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

If this was aimed at me or if I my words furthered this. I apologize.

JoeT - Specifically, I apologize for the "stupid, ignorant, dumb, mindless, uneducated assertion" comment. Well, except for the "uneducated" part b/c you were, in fact, wrong about your assertion.

Again, sorry to all.

Which assertion about the Battle of Hastings?

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think there's a balance between religion and logic that no one seems to be able to find. Ironically, I think that as human brains developed (evolution), they began to try to make sense of their surrounding, and this is where religion may have begun (just my assumption, no one bite my head off).

I do have a problem with the mixing of state and religion. This country has not suffered through the centuries of warfare (in our own soil) due to religion, and I think this is why people easily dismiss the problems with religion dictating policy.

As to mixing religion and logic - Some religious individuals ignore the logical paradoxes created by a belief in God and some secularists say the paradoxes are prove of religion's illogic. On the other hand, many rational people see the paradoxes as posing and encapsulating questions which cannot be answered through simple finite logic. I also agree that the drive behind religion is trying to make sense of our surroundings and things we don't understand. As I have said before, at their best, both religion and science strive to find the truth.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

Sorry. It is the general christian bashing and judging the good works of the many by the misdeeds of the minority that has me worked up a bit. Plus, what appears to be the hypocracy of those who accuse Christians of ignoring history and then turn around and make blatantly historically inaccurate statements.

making light of things and bashing things aren't exactly the same

I've more than enough heard someone say that they'll "pray for my salvation" and to me that's no different than me saying to believe in your fairy tale

[joethiesmanfan]

i will take this up after I flip off my way home through this traffic.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

I reach for nothing, my initial premise was simply that christianity played a significant role in preserving ancient knowledge and promoting scholarship. has organized religion also (both muslim and christianity) been used in the destruction of the same? Yup.

It was your stupid, ignorant, dumb, mindless, uneducated assertion that I was wrong in this premise b/c Christianity didn't come to the British Isles until 1066 that, IMO, epitomized the smug criticism of christianity of some on this board.

I'm more concerned about it in this 1000 years than any other millienium

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Let's try to keep things civil here and refrain from personal attacks. Threads the last few days have gotten pretty heated and personal.

I love making threads here.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

With that said, ultimately, you believe in a universe that can be explained through finite means and that we, as humans, could fully discover if given enough time. If that is the leap of faith you wish to make - so be it.

If you're referring to science then I'm not sure why you mention finite means.

[tryfuhl]

The thing is, we can argue about history, who did this, who did that, etc all that we want.

Does any of that make us any more right? Does it mean that any one group was more right than another? Does it mean that the issues that we have today were solved then?

Nope... not sure what people 1000 years ago have to do with this.. if anything it's more proof that it hasn't been solved and there are more questions than answers.

On a personal note, with religion in mind, with no new answers in thousands of years I'm not sure what's left to go on.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

The thing is, we can argue about history, who did this, who did that, etc all that we want.

Does any of that make us any more right? Does it mean that any one group was more right than another? Does it mean that the issues that we have today were solved then?

Nope... not sure what people 1000 years ago have to do with this.. if anything it's more proof that it hasn't been solved and there are more questions than answers.

It is a bit troublesome when government starts to define history. Just leave it to the academics I say

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Which assertion about the Battle of Hastings?

Originally Posted by joethiesmanfan

Did the Roman Empire fall before or after 1066? That my friend is when Christianity was forced upon the British by descendants of Vikings living in modern day France off the WWII famous coast of Normandy.

That one. It is simply and unequivocally wrong with no basis in historical fact. Christianity in Britain was established by the Romans during their occupation of the British Isles and preserved through monastic life after their withdrawal. The Saxons, who were defeated at Hasting by "descendants of Vikings living in modern day France" most assuredly did not have Christianity "forced upon them" as they were already Christians.

You used this blatantly wrong assertion to counter my argument that christianity played a large role in saving ancient knowledge after the fall of the Western Roman Empire which I, in turn, had made to counter the "All Christians are idiots b/c some Christians are idiots" arguments that seemed to be pervading the thread.

Thus, after some had seemingly asserted Christians are ignorant and uneducated, you made an ignorant and uneducated statement to refute my assertion that not all Christians are ignorant and uneducated.