8th Circuit Court Grants Stay, Lockout Continues

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by saden1

What happens when the pot gets bigger?

Well in some states I think your allowed to have like a gram or something but if the pot gets bigger then your going to probably go to jail.

Any questions?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I wrote a whole post about it, don't feel like rehashing it. But in summary, I don't believe the state of the league is as poor as the owners claim it is, and the NFLPA made several concessions which were rejected by the NFL before March

NFLPA Made Proposals To NFL On How To Split Revenues - SportsBusiness Daily | SportsBusiness Journal

and we disagree on "dubious means" and the players side was prepared to negotiate multiple times back in the spring, but the owners either wouldn't show up for meetings, would show up but sit in a separate room and not meet face to face, or would show up and leave after a couple of hours.

And from my own discussions with the league, I just don't buy that they're in the dire position they claim to be. And I know how they can bully, totally different circumstances I know.

Yes, both sides are to blame. But I think the owners are being made to look too much like the good guys. Which, I understand, they usually are because people generally have a hard time siding with "millionaires playing a kid's game"

I also don't think I'm as emotionally charged up about this as others appear to be. And heck, it would probably affect me more than most others here. But the only reason I want the issue resolved is for my own selfish reasons as a fan. But realistically, I know that what matters is getting to a long-term agreement that will benefit the players and keep the league moving forward for decades to come, not a quick fix band-aid solution to appease fans.

I'm not so aggravated about the NFLPA preparing for litigation. Both the NFL and the NFLPA have been preparing themselves for worst-case scenarios for a couple of years. That's par for the course.

I agree w/Saden; that's a good post. I've been very optimistic about this whole thing & I think I understand enough of both sides to be somewhat objective. Is greed & power involved? of course, how could it not be? But I'm trying not to get caught up on picking sides.

As a fan, I think this offers a great opportunity for the NFL & players to come up with some creative agreements that can benefit the league long-term. Like it or not, significant changes typically don't happen without some catastrophie or interuption of the status quo.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by sbxvii

well in some states i think your allowed to have like a gram or something but if the pot gets bigger then your going to probably go to jail.

Any questions?

lol.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by saden1

What happens when the pot gets bigger?

I imagine that you are quite capable of the math, but I guess the off season is ripe for mathematics

59% of 9B = 5.31Bill
53% of 10B = 5.3Bill

59% of 10B = 5.9Bill
53% of 11B = 5.83Bill

59% of 11B = 6.49Bill
53% of 12B = 6.36Bill

etc
extra credit
(suppose the additional 1b credit was issued then what % are we talking about)
start at 9B, subtract 2B = 7B (note the NFL has moved off the 2B number)
now use 59% (as that is the % after the exemption) = 4.13B
now find new % (4.13B/9B)*100 = 47% (approx)
that is the % the NFL initially asked the players to accept using the TGR system.

or something along those lines.

[SBXVII]

When you say they backed off the 2B number your refering to the owners still wanting their 1B they have been taking all along but instead of including the second billion they decided to split the difference 500mill/500mill and the players still balked. Right? It's like the players don't even want to give an inch. I think the owners knew they wouldn't get the 2B but you have to ask for it bacause you know the other side will talk you down. Like when selling a car, you want $2,500 you almost need to start out at $5,000. Thats all the owners did. But the players won't even let an extra 500 mill go.

[SBXVII]

Now things are getting interesting....

The National Hockey League yesterday asked the appeals court for permission to file a friend-of-the-court brief supporting team owners in the NFL case.

“The NHL has a direct interest in ensuring that the determination of terms and conditions of employment for NHL players is the product of a bona fide labor process rather than the ‘lever’ of potential antitrust liability,” attorneys for the hockey league said in their filing.

That league too questioned the players’ ability to disclaim their union and then file suit seeking injunctive relief.

NHL Argument
“The NHL respectfully submits that this cannot be the state of the law,” its lawyers wrote.

NFL Club Owners Seek Reversal of Lockout Order in Labor Fight With Players - Bloomberg

[SBXVII]

Wow for once a positive look at the lockout....

NFL.com news: In lockout with many losers, Burress might actually be a winner

[SBXVII]

Uh Oh, Now everyone is coming out of the wood work to file supporting the owners;
Mediation over but NFL says progress was made - ESPN

Separately, the U.S. Chamber of Commerce business lobbying group filed a brief Tuesday supporting the league.

The chamber, like the NFL, noted that the dispute is currently before the National Labor Relations Board in the form of an unfair labor negotiations charge against the players. Until then, the chamber said, the court fight should be on hold and the NFL should be able to lock out its players if needed.

"For the collective bargaining process to work as Congress intended, the parties to the dispute must largely be left by the courts to their own devices," the chamber said. "The prospect of self-help forces the parties to make difficult choices" with the option of judges coming to their aid."

The NHL, which could face its own labor problem next year, earlier filed a similar brief supporting the NFL.

Information from ESPN's

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Uh Oh, Now everyone is coming out of the wood work to file supporting the owners;
Mediation over but NFL says progress was made - ESPN

I support the owners. Great men like Mike Brown who would rather make disgruntled players suffer in Cincy rather then building his team through the draft with additional picks. Ralph Wilson, who's so senile that he hired a guy named Buddy Nix to build his team then confused the AFC East with the ACC in the hiring of Chan Gailey. Whose team thought that Aaron Maybin would be better then Brian Orakpo.

Guys like Jerry Jones, who thinks he's a great NFL GM. Guys like Dan Snyder who by taking a step back approach now has the time to sue newspapers in addition to bankrupt season ticket holders.

Bill Bidwell, who didn't start trying to win until he realized that the state of Arizona wouldn't build a stadium for a team that didn't even try.

These great business men are men of honor and greatness and I support them.

[SBXVII]

^ I'm soo confused, but it seems like the reward is lazyness and lack of production? Like Hayensworth. OMG, I just had an epiphany!

[Ruhskins]

I am not completely for the players, but I sure as hell are not going to have a drop of sympathy for the owners on this battle. Yet I am sure they are going to win this, since they appear to be willing to sacrifice a lot (2011 season) to get what they want.

[skinsfan69]

I'm not sure who I'm for at this point. I just don't want games to be missed. Especially that first week being the 10 year anniversay of 9-11. Football needs to be played on that day and it will be a huge public relations nightmare if there's no football on 9-11. And having seen two strikes, 82 and 87, it's only a matter of time before the owners are going to win. Eventually the players will cave in.

[SBXVII]

^ no matter what side your on it's going to boil down to attrition. Did the players save enough money to last the lockout? or are they going to have to get loans to pay back help out? In the end I'm hedging the players will be forced to give in.

What I don't get is they had 2 meetings, two weeks go by, they had 2 meetings, two weeks will go by, etc. etc. Why can't the magistrate mediator order them to sit every day up until June 3rd? Why do we have to wait until June 3rd now and then they can sit down June 7th?

Why the delay? They can still keep sitting down and talking while they wait to see who was wrong.

[Dirtbag59]

Someone needs to make a Real Men of Genius commercial for the lockout.

Today we salute you Mr. Overzealous Power Mongering Litigation Attorney

Mr Overzealous Power Mongering Litigation ATTORNEYYYY

[NC_Skins]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag59

They offered to open the books to a third party audit and the NFLPA refused. They wanted to look them over themselves, most likely to look for leverage.

NFL's Statement On NFLPA Decertification - Battle Red Blog

That doesn't say they offered to open their books to a third party. The "audited' information that they offering is going to hide any personal expenses they may be masking as their business expenses. This isn't the real information needed to ascertain whether the owners are lying about their claim of loss of profits. THIS is what the owners don't want players seeing because it'll kill their very plea that they are losing money when in fact they are blowing it for personal gain. (See the LA Dodgers for a prime example) Now, most owners aren't going to go all out like the McCourts but I will bet you my life that owners do use their business stuff for personal use and write it off as a "business expense". In fact, every owner I know in America does this. Goes back to my idea that you can't expect the players to take cuts all because you run your business horribly.

Originally Posted by SBXVII

What point of the players leaving 6 hrs prior to the deadline to file their decertification and not staying, not requesting and extension, and not even offering a counter offer makes the owners the bad guys who wanted to opt out of the CBA? I'm sorry but to put it in your words..." I don't care that the players opted out of the CBA."

I don't know of any courts that stay open till midnight, so they had to decertify by 5pm that day or the case wouldn't have stayed in Minnesota. Surely you do realize this right? They would have had an extension of the CBA before that 5pm deadline in order stop the NFLPA from decertifying. However, it had been said that there was no use of going forward at this point because both sides were no budging. They had no other choice but to decertify.



One thing to remember in the owners argument that player costs are the reason they are losing profits. Player salaries for the most part are not guaranteed. (unlike MLB and NBA) The salary cap of a team is no indication of how much they are actually paying their players that year. I still don't believe their bullcrap. I've never seen a business in my life bring in more revenue each year and lose profits. Not without somebody either embezzling money or doing a piss poor job running it.