ESPN Unveils 2013 Jaws’ QB Countdown List

[donofriose]

Drew Bree's almost threw double the amount of touchdowns flacco threw this past year... Without a coach. I don't think there is really a comparison between joe flacco who's never thrown over 30 touchdown passes and a guy who has thrown for over 5000 yards and 40 plus touchdowns in back to back seasons. Some of it is the system but most of it is drew Brees being an elite quarterback. Throwing for 40+ touchdowns in back to back years is remarkable regardless of system. It's just my opinion but drew Brees is a first ballot hall of famer, flacco at this point in his career wouldn't be close to getting in.

[NC_Skins]

Smoot, can you get somebody at ESPN to drug test Jaws....

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Which current QBs do you guys think are elite? I realize what is "elite" and whom is entirely subjective.

My list is (in no particular order inside category):

ELITE: Peyton, Brady, Rodgers

ELITE IF THEY KEEP GOING: Newton, RGIII, Kaep, RW, Luck.

NOT QUITE ELITE: Big Ben, Brees, Rivers

NOT ELITE BUT VERY GOOD: Flacco, Eli, Ryan, Romo, Cutler, Stafford, Dalton

EVERYBODY ELSE

LOL , good thing you don't work for the NFL.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Giantone

LOL , good thing you don't work for the NFL.

When you have any substance to add to the conversation, feel free.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

When you have any substance to add to the conversation, feel free.

You want your "list" to be taken seriously and I understand opinions and such ,yet you say that 2 of the only 3 QB's playing in the NFL right now with more than one Super Bowl win are only good not "elite" .I realize you're a hater but really , the list is a joke. Rivers ahead of Eli is a joke in it's self but to have him with Brees and Big Ben it boarders on , well , drug testing.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Giantone

You want your "list" to be taken seriously and I understand opinions and such ,yet you say that 2 of the only 3 QB's playing in the NFL right now with more than one Super Bowl win are only good not "elite" .I realize you're a hater but really , the list is a joke. Rivers ahead of Eli is a joke in it's self but to have him with Brees and Big Ben it boarders on , well , drug testing.

This from the guy who thinks

Originally Posted by Giantone

Top 5 , my 5 Brady ,Rogers ,Brees ,Roethlisberger , Eli , Peyton is 6 to me playoffs and super bowls are what it is about.

I guess by your criteria of playoffs and SBs, Dilfer = Peyton too, right? If not, explain and contradict yourself.

Rivers stats: LINK
116 starts, 2,268 of 3,564 (63.6) for 27,891 yards (7.8), 189 touchdowns and 93 interceptions. Career QBR 94.5.

E. Manning stats: LINK
135 starts, 2,612 of 4,457 (58.6) for 31,527 yards (7.1), 211 touchdowns and 144 interceptions. Career QBR 82.7.

Among other stats favoring Rivers, wow Eli has well over 50% MORE INTS than Philip.


The other career stats from the link above: Rivers has better completion %, better avg. gain, better yds/game, better TD %, better INT %, and better QBR.

And if you watch them play, there is really no comparison. Rivers makes quicker reads and has a better arm. He has to, Rivers has never had as good an OL as Eli has. The Gnats won two SB *despite* trading Rivers for Manning. Another reason they were lucky, not good. 'Course, I'm glad NY didn't get Rivers, they probably would have won at least one more SB with Philip.


TLDR: Philip >>> Eli. Indisputably. E.Manning isn't even in the same class as Rivers mano-a-mano. The only thing you can say in favor of Eli in this comparison is better "lucky" than good, he didn't earn more rings than Rivers himself.

Thanks for inspiring me to lay all this out, giantone! HTTR!

[Gary84Clark]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

This from the guy who thinks
I guess by your criteria of playoffs and SBs, Dilfer = Peyton too, right? If not, explain and contradict yourself.

Rivers stats: LINK
116 starts, 2,268 of 3,564 (63.6) for 27,891 yards (7.8), 189 touchdowns and 93 interceptions. Career QBR 94.5.

E. Manning stats: LINK
135 starts, 2,612 of 4,457 (58.6) for 31,527 yards (7.1), 211 touchdowns and 144 interceptions. Career QBR 82.7.

Among other stats favoring Rivers, wow Eli has well over 50% MORE INTS than Philip.


The other career stats from the link above: Rivers has better completion %, better avg. gain, better yds/game, better TD %, better INT %, and better QBR.

And if you watch them play, there is really no comparison. Rivers makes quicker reads and has a better arm. He has to, Rivers has never had as good an OL as Eli has. The Gnats won two SB *despite* trading Rivers for Manning. Another reason they were lucky, not good. 'Course, I'm glad NY didn't get Rivers, they probably would have won at least one more SB with Philip.


TLDR: Philip >>> Eli. Indisputably. E.Manning isn't even in the same class as Rivers mano-a-mano. The only thing you can say in favor of Eli in this comparison is better "lucky" than good, he didn't earn more rings than Rivers himself.

Thanks for inspiring me to lay all this out, giantone! HTTR!

I hate She lie!!

[SCRedskinsFan]

Originally Posted by Giantone

You want your "list" to be taken seriously and I understand opinions and such ,yet you say that 2 of the only 3 QB's playing in the NFL right now with more than one Super Bowl win are only good not "elite" .I realize you're a hater but really , the list is a joke. Rivers ahead of Eli is a joke in it's self but to have him with Brees and Big Ben it boarders on , well , drug testing.

Wha??? I'm not sure what you're referring to when you mention Brees and Big Ben, but if you're contending that Eli is a better QB than either, you're nuts. Especially Brees -- there's just nobody but a Giants fan that wouldn't take him over Eli in a heartbeat.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Gary84Clark

I hate She lie!!

Lol, funny thing is, to me Eli is one of the least objectionable players on that dirty, flopping, OL-holding, crooked owner team. I don't hate him, it's just laughable that Gnat fans compare Eli favorably to Rivers, let alone Brees, Peyton, Brady....

I mean, way back when we won with Doug Williams, and Mark Rypien, I don't recall Skins fans claiming they were as good as Montana, Young, Elway, etc...

[Mechanix544]

Philip Rivers and Eli Manning to me are as close as you can get to each other talent wise. I believe that if Rivers had Eli's receivers and running backs, as well as defense, he would have done what Eli did. If Eli had the Chargers team around him that Rivers has had, he prolly would have performed closely to what Rivers did....(although, maybe with a couple more INT's than Rivers, but who's counting)

***(edit)***Actually, Id give the edge to Rivers after checking some stats. Eli's passer rating is 82, and philip rivers is almost 95 over their respective careers. Also, Eli is barely sniffing 58% completion percentage, and Rivers is over 64%. So in terms of overall talent, Id give it to Rivers. Eli has always had a better coach though, and a much better defense.

BTW - neither of them are elite. Eli throws WAY too many INTs to be considered elite, and Rivers hasn't led his team to anything other than a couple playoff berths and disappointment. Id take RG3 over both of them 50 million times a week and 51 million times on sunday.

[donofriose]

Eli Manning is the complete opposite to his brother, during the regular season he is eh but then the post season comes around... There aren't that many quarterbacks I am taking over Eli. Maybe Brady but he has outplayed Brady twice in super bowls.
Rivers hasn't had the post season performances that Eli has had so its not really fair to compare the two in my opinion, plus I never like to play "well if he was on this team" game.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by HailGreen28

Lol, funny thing is, to me Eli is one of the least objectionable players on that dirty, flopping, OL-holding, crooked owner team. I don't hate him, it's just laughable that Gnat fans compare Eli favorably to Rivers, let alone Brees, Peyton, Brady....

I mean, way back when we won with Doug Williams, and Mark Rypien, I don't recall Skins fans claiming they were as good as Montana, Young, Elway, etc...

OHHH HELL yeah they did!

You get what you pay for and the Giants and Eli as much as you hate to admit it or not have 2 ,I realize you want the the stat chart to be your saving grace in this discussion but in the end a QB gets paid to win and if you don't you don't stay, Eli throw ints,so what ?My answer to all the anti Eli people is he wins super bowls ,this from PFT
"In Eli Manning, the Giants have a skilled, experienced, playoff-tested, durable quarterback. Think of all the teams that don’t have such stability at this key position. The Giants do, and it’s a primary reason they can’t be discounted."
Look Eli can go on streaks when he is bad ...he's bad ,but he wins super bowls and anyone that says that doesn't mean anything in the NFL is an idiot, yes it's that simple.
Yes my 5 are Rogers, Brady,Brees,Roethlisberger,Eli and Peyton .Want me to take a shot at Bob...I won't ,I like him and he has the tools ,like everything about him ,your team just has to protect him and when he wins then maybe he'll be in the discussion .To compare Eli to Rivers or Romo is ...well ignorant.

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by Giantone

OHHH HELL yeah they did!

So you're as delusional about Skins fans as you are about Eli.

(bold mine)

Originally Posted by Giantone

You get what you pay for and the Giants and Eli as much as you hate to admit it or not have 2 ,

Or in the Giants' case, better lucky than good in more ways than one. Thank goodness they didn't get Rivers, they'd have won even more.

Originally Posted by Giantone

I realize you want the the stat chart to be your saving grace in this discussion but in the end a QB gets paid to win and if you don't you don't stay, Eli throw ints,so what ?My answer to all the anti Eli people is he wins super bowls ,this from PFT
"In Eli Manning, the Giants have a skilled, experienced, playoff-tested, durable quarterback. Think of all the teams that don’t have such stability at this key position. The Giants do, and it’s a primary reason they can’t be discounted."

And again, thank goodness the Gnats got Eli instead of Rivers, Brees, Rothlisberger, etc. Giants fans are delusional enough as is.

"The stat chart to be the only saving grace"? Lol. Among the other parts of the game Eli is inferior, INTs are INTs. Though I guess by your standards "paid to win": since we swept the Giants with Rex Grossman as QB, that means Sexy Rexy >>> Eli. And when the stats are so lopsided in favor of Rivers, when just looking at them play it's also obvious Rivers is better. The only thing in Eli's favor is what superbowls THE GIANTS won. And last I looked there were 21+ other starters on a team that helped decide that.

I know you'll probably ignore this like everything else, but look at it this way: The Ravens won the SB this season. Would you take Joe Flacco on your team over Eli or any other QB? No? Why not? Go ahead and answer and contradict yourself.

Originally Posted by Giantone

Look Eli can go on streaks when he is bad ...he's bad ,but he wins super bowls and anyone that says that doesn't mean anything in the NFL is an idiot, yes it's that simple.

Strawman, nobody said winning doesn't mean anything. OTOH, where does Dan Marino fit on your all-time list, and why? Stats? By his quick release and arm?

Originally Posted by Giantone

Yes my 5 are Rogers, Brady, Brees, Roethlisberger, Eli and Peyton .Want me to take a shot at Bob...I won't ,I like him and he has the tools ,like everything about him ,your team just has to protect him and when he wins then maybe he'll be in the discussion .

Ummm, you listed 6 QBs. "Take a shot at Bob"? See, that's your problem, you base your opinion on "taking shots" at other teams QBs and assume that must be my motivation. LMAO if you actually want to compare Griffin's performance with Eli's rookie year. I expect you to cling to injury on that, because that's all you have there. Just like basically all you have to cling to Eli being discussed with other better QBs is how well the Giants did in the playoffs.

(Bold mine)

Originally Posted by Giantone

To compare Eli FAVORABLY to Rivers or MUCH BETTER THAN Romo is ...well ignorant.

Fixed it for you. YW.

[CultBrennan59]

Just remember, Eli and his dad were a bunch of cry babies saying that they didn't want Eli to go to San Diego because AJ Smith aka "the lord of no rings" as Archie called him, was the GM of the chargers. Had AJ Smith been the GM of the giants, Rivers is in New York with most likely 2 Super Bowls and Eli is in San Diego with maybe 1 Super Bowl. And you would be tooting your horn about how great Rivers is.

[skinsfaninok]

Pure beauty.