2012 Presidential Election (free for all edition)

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

In other news, I love debunking the talking point the Obamacare adds to the deficit.

CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com

From your link.

Since states now have the option to accept or reject the government's offer to pay 100 percent of the initial cost to expand Medicaid, the CBO estimates that 3 million fewer Americans than previously expected will gain health insurance coverage under health care reform.
As a result, taxpayers will save about $84 billion between 2012 and 2022, when an additional 30 million Americans will have been added to the health insurance pool.

Read more: CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com

I thought the arguement on Obama care was by insuring more people we reduce cost. Now by not adding these people its going to reduce cost? Which is it?

[12thMan]

Wait a minute, why couldn't it be both? Who says that's it one or the other. It's absolutely true the protest at the Egyptian embassy were sparked by the video.

Firstdown, you're late to the game. There's been no cover-up on Fast and Furious. AG Holder was cleared of any wrong doing. It was determined by an independent review board that neither the White House nor AG Holder was involved in a cover-up. Zilch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/20/us...anted=all&_r=0

Eric Holder cleared of wrongdoing in Fast and Furious case | The Ticket - Yahoo! News

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

From your link.

Since states now have the option to accept or reject the government's offer to pay 100 percent of the initial cost to expand Medicaid, the CBO estimates that 3 million fewer Americans than previously expected will gain health insurance coverage under health care reform.
As a result, taxpayers will save about $84 billion between 2012 and 2022, when an additional 30 million Americans will have been added to the health insurance pool.

Read more: CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com

I thought the arguement on Obama care was by insuring more people we reduce cost. Now by not adding these people its going to reduce cost? Which is it?

The plan isn't fully implemented until 2014. Costs have definitely slowed and leveled off since the law passed.

[NC_Skins]

Does Romney Have an In-Law Problem? - Yahoo! News


This seems fitting that 2 scumbag business guys related to Romney are campaigning for him. He'll do wonders for our economy guys!! Just vote him and and he'll then give you the specifics on how he's going to do this!

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Well its your man one day saying its a terrorist attack and then the following that up by saying it was an uncontrolled mob over a movie. Its also his administration who denied extra security. Plenty of evidences shows they knew it was a terrorist attack but for some reason (I'd say because they denied more security) they said it was a mob.

Funny you even bring up Fast and Furious. So why is the president not providing the documents requested by cobgress if he has nothing to coved up?

I don't recall people saying the president was covering up the Solyndra mess we just said that he loaned them money after his own staff warned him not to give them the money.

Strike 3 your out.

The security request was in Tripoli 400 miles away, not Benghazi where the attack took place. That's a fact. So you're wrong.

The Administration didn't deny security. Security requests are made to State Department. The president doesn't have purview over security at Embassy posts. It's also true that Congress cut funding for additional embassy security.

[12thMan]

For the record, I absolutely think things could have been handled better. There seems to be inter-agency confusion on the timeline of events and the intel is murky at best.

That said, I don't think there was some secret cover-up or scandal. But the Administration could have been and should have been more forthcoming with the details they had at the time and they weren't. Now that the whole thing is politicized, they'll only share details that will portray them in a favorable light. And that's what's sad. On balance, they could have done a much better job all around.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

The security request was in Tripoli 400 miles away, not Benghazi where the attack took place. That's a fact. So you're wrong.

The Administration didn't deny security. Security requests are made to State Department. The president doesn't have purview over security at Embassy posts. It's also true that Congress cut funding for additional embassy security.

He didn't have problem sending security after it happened all arround the world as he stated in the debate.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

The security request was in Tripoli 400 miles away, not Benghazi where the attack took place. That's a fact. So you're wrong.

The Administration didn't deny security. Security requests are made to State Department. The president doesn't have purview over security at Embassy posts. It's also true that Congress cut funding for additional embassy security.

You better tell that to his state department.

On Wednesday, the State Department's former point man on security in Libya told the House Oversight Committee that he asked for additional security help for the Benghazi facility months before the attack, but was denied.
Various communications dating back a year asked for three to five diplomatic security agents, according to testimony at Wednesday's hearing. But Eric Nordstrom, the one-time regional security officer, said he verbally asked for 12 agents.
The request for 12 agents was rebuffed by the regional director of the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, Nordstrom testified.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/12/politi...ity/index.html

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

He didn't have problem sending security after it happened all arround the world as he stated in the debate.

I guess my point is, it's easy to critique what should have happened in the aftermath. How things could have been done better. The truth is getting a security detail for the Benghazi consulate was a very tricky and complicated matter that involved the Libyan government and ours. They are a country in transition after the fall of Ghadafy. You know, we don't go to these countries expecting rockets to be aimed at us. It's just part of who we are as a nation. Freedom is expressed both ways. We were their to help the democratic process move in the right direction. Barricading our officials behind barbed wire fences and full body armored Marines sends a mixed message about why we're there and whom we're helping.

Libya wasn't high on the list of potential terror threats. Someone made a judgement call. In hindsight, it was a bad call. Both the president and Secretary Clinton have said as much. So we could go back and forth and play the blame game, but that won't bring back Ambassador Stevens or the other Americans that were killed.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

You better tell that to his state department.

On Wednesday, the State Department's former point man on security in Libya told the House Oversight Committee that he asked for additional security help for the Benghazi facility months before the attack, but was denied.
Various communications dating back a year asked for three to five diplomatic security agents, according to testimony at Wednesday's hearing. But Eric Nordstrom, the one-time regional security officer, said he verbally asked for 12 agents.
The request for 12 agents was rebuffed by the regional director of the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, Nordstrom testified.

CNN Fact Check: What about the security in Benghazi? - CNN.com

On Tuesday, two senior State Department officials told reporters that U.S. and Libyan security personnel in Benghazi were out-manned, and that no reasonable security presence could have fended off the assault.

It's unclear how high Nordstrom's request got in the administration, but he says he did ask the State Department's Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs for more security help at the Benghazi post.

[saden1]

LOL...I definitely don't have it.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

In other news, I love debunking the talking point the Obamacare adds to the deficit.

CBO: 'Obamacare' cuts deficit | Bankrate.com

You're dead on, when you account for all the new tax hikes, and cuts to Medicare (over $ 1T) included in Obamacare it "cuts" the deficit. Great policy, cut benefits and coverage options for seniors (who are the biggest users of healthcare) and cover more lower income young people. Fits right in with the whole Quality Adjusted Life Years school of thought

CBO: Obamacare to Cost $1.930 Trillion, Leave 30 Million Uninsured | The Weekly Standard

CBO: Obamacare mandate will cost 6 million taxpayers $7 billion in 2016 | WashingtonExaminer.com

Will Obamacare Play Games With Your Actual Life? - Forbes

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Again, you can choose to ignore what I said and avoid the main issue....but as I stated before, any statement by Romney has no effect on the actions/statements of the Obama Administration.
.

Again BS you choose to ignore the victims families and what they were going through,...just like Romney.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Again BS you choose to ignore the victims families and what they were going through,...just like Romney.

I haven't ignored the victims' families at all. I already stated my disagreement with Romney's initial statement in another thread.

You're spinning faster than the clowns on Spin Alley after the debates and are choosing not to acknowledge my point, which you know is correct. Again, for the third time, nothing Romney said has any affect (and if it does it is another confirmation that we need a new POTUS) on Obama's response or statements regarding Benghazi.

And while we're talking about ignoring victims' families, why hasn't the Obama Admin provided a legit response to Pat Smith?

Pat Smith, mother of Sean Smith, one of four Americans killed in Libya embassy attack, angry US government still can't tell her what happened - NYPOST.com

Also, why did Sec. Clinton mention the stupid-ass video at the ceremony for the vicitms in Dover, while the coffins were yards away, when they knew damn right well this was a terrorist attack! Is that fair to the victims' families?

Remains of Libya attack victims return home - CBS News

Do not for one second lecture me on ignoring the victims or their families. If the Obama Admin had done its job there would be no victims or caskets. This was a MAJOR FUBAR, and it's sure a hell of a lot more than a "bump in the road" or "not optimal".

[CRedskinsRule]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX_1B0w7Hzc