WFT Quarterback Thread - Post SEASON 2021

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

Houston has come out and said once again they will not trade Watson... He of course says he will never play there again..

Someone will budge come April

It won't be Houston's ownership. They'll let him sit and waste a year of his prime. Then sue him into bankruptcy. He doesn't play all year, he is functionally bankrupt from fines and lawsuit to recover bonus. One party holds all the power, and it is not Watson, especially because Houston ownership could care less about public opinion.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Scalper

It won't be Houston's ownership. They'll let him sit and waste a year of his prime. Then sue him into bankruptcy. He doesn't play all year, he is functionally bankrupt from fines and lawsuit to recover bonus. One party holds all the power, and it is not Watson, especially because Houston ownership could care less about public opinion.

Houston doesnt have recourse to sue. The CBA specifies the fines and salary loss. You aren't bankrupting Watson any more than we bankrupted TW. If Houston doesn't trade him he will pretty assuredly sit out this year, or come back in week 11 to ensure the contract year doesnt toll but find a reaaon to not suit up.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Houston doesnt have recourse to sue. The CBA specifies the fines and salary loss. You aren't bankrupting Watson any more than we bankrupted TW. If Houston doesn't trade him he will pretty assuredly sit out this year, or come back in week 11 to ensure the contract year doesnt toll but find a reaaon to not suit up.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Saw an article the other day that mentioned if covid continues to persist, the NFL might let players opt out for the year again for health or safety reasons. If that happens Watson definitely has the advantage.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by mooby

Saw an article the other day that mentioned if covid continues to persist, the NFL might let players opt out for the year again for health or safety reasons. If that happens Watson definitely has the advantage.

Does that just put their contract "on pause"? I'm not familiar with how that works for the team or the player.

If he opts out due to COVID, can they still trade him, or do they just start over next offseason?

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by mooby

Saw an article the other day that mentioned if covid continues to persist, the NFL might let players opt out for the year again for health or safety reasons. If that happens Watson definitely has the advantage.

Yeah but that doesn’t count toward an accrued year on your contract does it? Wouldn’t that start him off the following year exactly where he is now from a contract stand point?

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Houston doesnt have recourse to sue. The CBA specifies the fines and salary loss. You aren't bankrupting Watson any more than we bankrupted TW. If Houston doesn't trade him he will pretty assuredly sit out this year, or come back in week 11 to ensure the contract year doesnt toll but find a reaaon to not suit up.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

Watson will be bankrupted, without suing, by simply not collecting a salary. You are correct the fines come out of salary not paid. The team can sue for bonus money, but there are limitations. Basically, Watson comes back Week 11, team can sue him for prorated 10 weeks of bonus. Some variation depending on bye week?, suspect it is just treated like a standard pay week. Most teams don't do that because alienates player permanently, but they can. That's around $3.5M, and Watson basically then gets hosed for twice that amount because he paid taxes and agent fees already. They can also take fines out of his checks from week 11 onward, which are I believe more dispersed under new CBA, checks throughout like 8 months of year keep players with budgeting skills of 7 year olds from going broke, not just weekly game checks. He's due $10.5M in 2021, but gets 38% of that only, because of games missed. About $4M. Some variation with preseason games how they count etc., could make that higher, but most estimates say Watson holds out of everything, fines are $3M to $4M. That means he earns $1M maximum, after fines, and it could be nothing or he could even end up owing team money. His effective earnings 2021 are thus NOTHING if he holds out. And this isn't some guy that lives frugally on the few million he hasn't spent. Even if he makes $1M in 2021, pays half in taxes, 3% agent fee or whatever, etc.

I do not know how holdout has changed under new CBA, when player can come back and still get entire season. They tightened some previsions on holdouts, but I don't know.

TW collected fat checks almost a decade. Situation not analogous. TW easily worth $50M+ liquid when he held out.

I agree he will sit out this year probably, and my point is Houston ownership is fine with that and has him by the balls. They will eat the money and cornhole him because the money matters MUCH less to them than him. And by the time year 2 rolls around, of the holdout, Watson will be rolling up on broke, in NFL player terms. His market value not playing football is under $100K, optimistically. Houston owners rake in the cash from TV deal even if Watson doesn't play and tickets don't sell. I also think owners in general STRONGLY support Houston owners, simply because they aren't going to let players take huge new deals with tons of guaranteed money and then hold them hostage and hijack their golden goose. There is always another player, even at QB, and a huge line of players have learned that the hard way. Love it or hate it, owners wield almost all power in NFL.

2022 is the first year Watson earns real money, $35M, but if he holds out, that drops. to $13.3M, minus $4M fines, $9.3M, half for taxes agent fees, $4.7M left. Not chump change, but not a pile either, especially because he is now on hook for 2 years of bonus money, which team will certainly go after by 2022, which is 6.7M or something for two years prorated. Probably involves player's union, but team can still sue. And he has to get to 2022. By that time, end of 2022 season, he's rolling up on 28 by start of next season, and has squandered his prime. I don't think it'll get to that. But Houston can just sit on it and hose him. They can sign another QB free agent, draft one, whatever, and earn the TV revenue.

Watson is a HOLE, and dumb, for not thinking it through before signing new deal. I fully expect Houston to maintain its zero-tolerance no trade policy for years. By 2022 Watson will cave, for sure, and the team can easily eat the $13.3M just out of spite as dead cap money.

Watson isn't going ANYWHERE, except to bankruptcy court if he doesn't play by 2022, and by that time I think he will certainly cave simply because his years of high earning are limited, whereas Houston ownership earns forever no matter what players they have or don't have. I hope he does hold out and go broke, that would serve him right for being such a HOLE, taking pirate ships full of loot for signing bonus and than reneging on his contractual obligations.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Scalper

Watson will be bankrupted, without suing, by simply not collecting a salary. You are correct the fines come out of salary not paid. The team can sue for bonus money, but there are limitations. Basically, Watson comes back Week 11, team can sue him for prorated 10 weeks of bonus. Some variation depending on bye week?, suspect it is just treated like a standard pay week. Most teams don't do that because alienates player permanently, but they can. That's around $3.5M, and Watson basically then gets hosed for twice that amount because he paid taxes and agent fees already. They can also take fines out of his checks from week 11 onward, which are I believe more dispersed under new CBA, checks throughout like 8 months of year keep players with budgeting skills of 7 year olds from going broke, not just weekly game checks. He's due $10.5M in 2021, but gets 38% of that only, because of games missed. About $4M. Some variation with preseason games how they count etc., could make that higher, but most estimates say Watson holds out of everything, fines are $3M to $4M. That means he earns $1M maximum, after fines, and it could be nothing or he could even end up owing team money. His effective earnings 2021 are thus NOTHING if he holds out. And this isn't some guy that lives frugally on the few million he hasn't spent. Even if he makes $1M in 2021, pays half in taxes, 3% agent fee or whatever, etc.



I do not know how holdout has changed under new CBA, when player can come back and still get entire season. They tightened some previsions on holdouts, but I don't know.



TW collected fat checks almost a decade. Situation not analogous. TW easily worth $50M+ liquid when he held out.



I agree he will sit out this year probably, and my point is Houston ownership is fine with that and has him by the balls. They will eat the money and cornhole him because the money matters MUCH less to them than him. And by the time year 2 rolls around, of the holdout, Watson will be rolling up on broke, in NFL player terms. His market value not playing football is under $100K, optimistically. Houston owners rake in the cash from TV deal even if Watson doesn't play and tickets don't sell. I also think owners in general STRONGLY support Houston owners, simply because they aren't going to let players take huge new deals with tons of guaranteed money and then hold them hostage and hijack their golden goose. There is always another player, even at QB, and a huge line of players have learned that the hard way. Love it or hate it, owners wield almost all power in NFL.



2022 is the first year Watson earns real money, $35M, but if he holds out, that drops. to $13.3M, minus $4M fines, $9.3M, half for taxes agent fees, $4.7M left. Not chump change, but not a pile either, especially because he is now on hook for 2 years of bonus money, which team will certainly go after by 2022, which is 6.7M or something for two years prorated. Probably involves player's union, but team can still sue. And he has to get to 2022. By that time, end of 2022 season, he's rolling up on 28 by start of next season, and has squandered his prime. I don't think it'll get to that. But Houston can just sit on it and hose him. They can sign another QB free agent, draft one, whatever, and earn the TV revenue.



Watson is a HOLE, and dumb, for not thinking it through before signing new deal. I fully expect Houston to maintain its zero-tolerance no trade policy for years. By 2022 Watson will cave, for sure, and the team can easily eat the $13.3M just out of spite as dead cap money.



Watson isn't going ANYWHERE, except to bankruptcy court if he doesn't play by 2022, and by that time I think he will certainly cave simply because his years of high earning are limited, whereas Houston ownership earns forever no matter what players they have or don't have. I hope he does hold out and go broke, that would serve him right for being such a HOLE, taking pirate ships full of loot for signing bonus and than reneging on his contractual obligations.

Watson has earned 40Million Cash so far. The Texans aren't bankrupting him.


Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

[MTK]

The team isn't the one that will start losing $$ once he starts skipping mandatory team functions. Watson will blink first.

[skinsfaninok]

Originally Posted by MTK

The team isn't the one that will start losing $$ once he starts skipping mandatory team functions. Watson will blink first.

I think he has to cave eventually and it's not just about the $ I think his reputation could be tarnished if he sits out. Will show a lack of leadership big time.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I think he has to cave eventually and it's not just about the $ I think his reputation could be tarnished if he sits out. Will show a lack of leadership big time.

If his reputation was "tarnished" teams would not be tripping over themselves to trade for him.

Also, I'm pretty sure the team will see a significant difference between having Watson play and having AJ McCarron or Josh McCown play.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

If his reputation was "tarnished" teams would not be tripping over themselves to trade for him.

Also, I'm pretty sure the team will see a significant difference between having Watson play and having AJ McCarron or Josh McCown play.

Is Trent Williams' name tarnished? Everybody will forget about Watson sitting out if he balls out with his new team.

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I think he has to cave eventually and it's not just about the $ I think his reputation could be tarnished if he sits out. Will show a lack of leadership big time.

I don’t think so. A lot of players have talked the hold out game but it seems like Houston leadership has crossed Watson on a personal level. I don’t ever recall a player talking directly to the head coach and owner and telling them to their face I’m not playing for this team ever again. Plus he’s been super vocal about it publicly. He’s got plenty of money and you know if he waits long enough they will cave eventually and trade him because his market value isn’t going to dry up.

[Chief X_Phackter]

Originally Posted by SkinzWin

I don’t think so. A lot of players have talked the hold out game but it seems like Houston leadership has crossed Watson on a personal level. I don’t ever recall a player talking directly to the head coach and owner and telling them to their face I’m not playing for this team ever again. Plus he’s been super vocal about it publicly. He’s got plenty of money and you know if he waits long enough they will cave eventually and trade him because his market value isn’t going to dry up.

Is that true? I haven't heard anything from his mouth. There's been a lot of reporting about how unhappy he is and why, but when did he come out and say that personally?

[SkinzWin]

Originally Posted by Chief X_Phackter

Is that true? I haven't heard anything from his mouth. There's been a lot of reporting about how unhappy he is and why, but when did he come out and say that personally?

Okay. Let me clarify. Not directly. Not “I hate the Texans and I am not playing for them again.” But he’s lighting up Twitter with passive aggressive comments throughout the whole situation.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by skinsfaninok

I think he has to cave eventually and it's not just about the $ I think his reputation could be tarnished if he sits out. Will show a lack of leadership big time.

Nah. Public on his side, given what a clownshow Houston was and is. O'Brien especially. All about the money. Watson can't afford to sit, Houston can afford to sit him. Houston's going to look him right in the eyes and basically say f-you. Sit this year, we still have you under contract 4 more years (team has option for 2 more years after initial 4). So then come back and sit next year, we still have you under contract 4 more years. Do it until you're 53 if you want. We'll fine you almost $4M a year, and sue you for $5.4M a year bonus money. Keep in mind, Watson received a $27M bonus but paid well over 50% tax on it with taxes and agent fees. He can't get that tax money back. Nor the agent fees. So when Houston sues him for $5.4, its really like suing him for $10.8. Two years of having to give bonus money back, $10.8M, is $20.6 pretax, conservatively, and he's bankrupt. He received $30M or so last year including signing bonus, $15M after taxes, he's easily blown $5M. I'm stunned if his liquid net worth is more than $5M, but let's say $10M. He'll be working at McDonald's to pay back the bonus money if he doesn't play. He can talk about principles all he wants, once the bling starts to go away. . .