Obama Care

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

What a f'ing joke,

And how did things work out for Jefferson Davis and the confederacy? What's the "f'ing joke?"

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GMScud

And how did things work out for Jefferson Davis and the confederacy? What's the "f'ing joke?"

The f'king joke is that America's history began with tragedy wherein men enslaved men while preaching freedom. One must uncomfortably laugh when they hear such talks as "America...history...[blah blah]..freedom."

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by saden1

The f'king joke is that America's history began with tragedy wherein men enslaved men while preaching freedom. One must uncomfortably laugh when they hear such talks as "America...history...[blah blah]..freedom."

I get it. There's certainly some hypocrisy in our history and how we preach things these days (it makes me physically cringe to say that).

I find a bit of irony in the fact that you seem rather anti-American History (at least the way it's talked about and taught), yet you favor the gigantic government side of the aisle.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I get it. There's certainly some hypocrisy in our history and how we preach things these days (it makes me physically cringe to say that).

I find a bit of irony in the fact that you seem rather anti-American History (at least the way it's talked about and taught), yet you favor the gigantic government side of the aisle.

Don't label me. I believe there is more to a government than simply providing a defense department. Providing social services is in the mandate of a government and "rising tides lift all boats" idiom is not limited in scope to to the realm of economics. Because I hold these view it doesn't mean I enjoy seeing my money wasted.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by saden1

The f'king joke is that America's history began with tragedy wherein men enslaved men while preaching freedom. One must uncomfortably laugh when they hear such talks as "America...history...[blah blah]..freedom."

Or one can recognize that it was the ideals of freedom which led to the day when every United States child can believe that he/she can hold the highest elected office, not because of their status or their wealth, but because they live in a land that offers individuals the ability to go where the parents did not. One must uncomfortably cry when the history of the United States is so blatantly perverted to promote the Federal takeover of the healthcare that it's supporters harken back the days of slavery, something long since abolished, denying the very ideals of freedom, and individual responsibility that great men such as Martin Luther King Jr - I have a dream ... where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. , and John F Kennedy - Ask NOT what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country(don't hear many UHC supporters touting that line!) in US history proclaimed.

It is f'king laughable that you Saden, who cheer so loudly for Obama, demean the ideals of freedom that led us to this momentous period where he has risen to the presidency.

The Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You speech by John F. Kennedy

Originally Posted by JFK speech

And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe - the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.
...

To those peoples in the huts and villages across the globe struggling to break the bonds of mass misery, we pledge our best efforts to help them help themselves, for whatever period is required
...
And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country.

My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Or one can recognize that it was the ideals of freedom which led to the day when every United States child can believe that he/she can hold the highest elected office, not because of their status or their wealth, but because they live in a land that offers individuals the ability to go where the parents did not. One must uncomfortably cry when the history of the United States is so blatantly perverted to promote the Federal takeover of the healthcare that it's supporters harken back the days of slavery, something long since abolished, denying the very ideals of freedom, and individual responsibility that great men such as Martin Luther King Jr - I have a dream ... where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. , and John F Kennedy - Ask NOT what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country(don't hear many UHC supporters touting that line!) in US history proclaimed.

It is f'king laughable that you Saden, who cheer so loudly for Obama, demean the ideals of freedom that led us to this momentous period where he has risen to the presidency.

The Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You speech by John F. Kennedy

One must wonder if all is well in America in light of Obama's election. I say no and that we still have a long way to go.

[CRedskinsRule]

also let us remember that slavery was a worldwide tragedy and scourge. Romans had slaves during their empire.
Europe took it up before the United States even existed

1562 Britain begins its slave trade in Africa. Slave Trade increases significantly with development of plantation colonies of the Americas, especially in Brazil. Other countries involved in the European slave trade included Spain (from 1479); North America (from 1619); Holland (from 1625); France (from 1642); Sweden (from 1647); and Denmark (from 1697).

It was indeed worldwide:


This was a tragic time in world history and especially the history of the United States, and I don't know one person that I deal with who thinks otherwise.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

also let us remember that slavery was a worldwide tragedy and scourge. Romans had slaves during their empire.
Europe took it up before the United States even existed

It was indeed worldwide:


This was a tragic time in world history and especially the history of the United States, and I don't know one person that I deal with who thinks otherwise.

How does slavery being a world wide practice absolve America of its sins? Don't you realize that when you speak of the founding of this country and the issue of freedom you're are in essence only speaking of freedom for Caucasians? You are making the founding of America something it is not, and that something is inclusive.

That's all I'm trying to say. It's fair assessment, it's an accurate assessment, and it's not meant to demean America; it is simply the truth.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by saden1

How does slavery being a world wide practice absolve America of its sins? Don't you realize that when you speak of the founding of this country and the issue of freedom you're are in essence only speaking of freedom for Caucasians? You are making the founding of America something it is not, and that something is inclusive.

That's all I'm trying to say. It's fair assessment, it's an accurate assessment, and it's not meant to demean America; it is simply the truth.

I did not say it absolved the US. I specifically said it was tragic ESPECIALLY in the US, because it was in direct opposition to the ideals that were stated in our founding documents. But, with respect to freedom, we have continued to march towards our ideals, not back into the erroneous ways of slavery. But with respect to individual responsibility that goes hand in hand with freedom and liberty, IMO -we are moving back towards the type of Government that enslaves the populace, not the type which empowers individuals.

Further the ideals, while not inclusively practiced at our founding(and I would argue that that was not purely US, but world wide beliefs of the time) it has broadened and grown in a short time (historically speaking) to where it is today.

[jsarno]

So let me get this right here are some quotes:

"This has nothing to do with race," member Lori Slowinski said. "I paid my money for a private swim club…if they're gonna have it out to camps, then I want my money back."

Jim Flynn went right to the club president after the kids took the plunge into the 110,000 gallon pool. "I was the first person to talk to the president, because the pool was overcrowded," said Flynn. "As members we have nothing to hide. There's good people here."

So it's a PRIVATE club, yes? The PRIVATE club knew that club coming in was ethnically diverse, yes? But they still were going to allow them in, yes? The link shows this quote as well:

Our Valley Club deplores discrimination in any form, as is evidenced by our multi-ethnic and diverse membership. Whatever comments may or may not have been made by an individual member is an opinion not shared by The Valley Club Board.

So it's not condoning some comments made by parents (which seems like only 1 was of the racist nature according to the link, but I'm sure there could be more)
Even a 16 year old minority MEMBER had this to say:

Daniel Veres, a 16-year old Hispanic teen who is also a member, says the entire situation is just a misunderstanding. "We're not judgmental, we're just friendly,"

So do I blame parents for getting upset that nonmembers crowded their pool? Absolutely not. If you pay good money to belong to an (what they deem to be an) exclusive club thinking it was a part of a MEMBERSHIP, why should they not be upset when any group, no matter what the racial background, be brought in? Keep in mind the group brought in wasn't all black either.
Did some parents get racist, I don't know for sure, but I would certainly bet yes. Does this mean the Valley Swim Club deserves all this crap? ABSOLUTELY NOT! They tried to help out these kids, and when it realized what a problem their decision made, they corrected it. I do not believe it was racially driven as much as it was member driven. It was an unfortunate incident. But to say this is evidence of racism in america, really...this is your arguement? If it is, I am quite happy with the road abolishing racism has taken us. This seems more of something just to complain about than actual pure racism. The club itself is not 100% white, just because it is mainly white, doesn't make it purely white. There is a huge difference. If you can name me a black person that was turned away for MEMBERSHIP, then I will call this club racist. Until then, this is nothing more than a mix up.
It's amazing how we are soooo quick to play the racism card in every situation when it involves african americans. It doesn't matter that the group had other ethnic backgrounds. So what do those kids say? (from a white kid, or latino kid in the camp) "Mom, all these kids care about is the black kids going to swim...so not only am I not allowed to swim, I'm now being pushed aside of the camp I belong to...where do I fit in?"
I will point out something, this comes from the front page of the most racist orginization on the planet...the NAACP (

The NAACP deplores the recent incident of racial discrimination at the Valley Swim Club in Philadelphia, in which a group of black day-camp children were told to leave a pool because they “changed the complexion and atmosphere” of the facility.

Is this the year 2009, or 1959?

This egregious episode casts us back in time, to the long, shameful era of Jim Crow segregation in America.

Does this FUEL the fire, or tell a story? It takes 1 blip from the comments and runs with it while there is a whole story to tell. This my friends is racist. It fuels racism in america. Instead of trying to educate of what actually happened, it only posts what it deemed relevant pointing out the incident what it believes to be racist.
Don't think the NAACP is racist? It's in their name. National Association for the ADVANCEMENT of [/b]Colored People[/b]. Not equality of colored people (which I would understand), not equality for all either. They don't even care about the equality of other "colored" people such as Latino's, or middle eastern people, or indian. No one finds that odd? Of course not, because we have been conditioned that racism is PURELY white on black. It couldn't possibly exist another way. Racism is racism. It's disgusting in every form. Latino to blacks, blacks to whites, indians to europeans...it's all the same. Racism is racism, and all of it needs to go away.
Please don't misconstrue what I am saying, I am not saying some of those parents that were making racial remarks are right, what I am saying is, the club should not be punished for the idiocracy of a few. And YES, MEMBERS should have the right to be picky about the public allowed in their pool no matter the ethnicity. If this was a group of predominantly white kids, and they were booted out, this wouldn't even make ANY type of news. Possibly wouldn't even make the news if they were mainly Latinos. Shame on us for making this such a national deal. That only fuels racism, not abolishes it.

[saden1]

I have seen many a cluster-f*ck of a post in this forum but ^^^ takes the cake. Absolute trash.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by saden1

I have seen many a cluster-f*ck of a post in this forum but ^^^ takes the cake. Absolute trash.

And yet another closed minded individual speaks. Bravo.
Nice way to debate where I was wrong. Not all of us need to share your skewed opinion.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by jsarno

And yet another closed minded individual speaks. Bravo.
Nice way to debate where I was wrong. Not all of us need to share your skewed opinion.

Worst Post Ever! Ever! It doesn't deserve to be debated!

I think I'm going to put a link to it on my message wall.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by saden1

Worst Post Ever! Ever! It doesn't deserve to be debated!

I think I'm going to put a link to it on my message wall.

LOL...great idea.

[firstdown]

Are the people at that club complaining racist? Probably. Maybe some did have a concern with the crowding issue but if this was a bunch of white kids I'm not so sure they would have raised any concerns. This is also a good time for them to teach those kids that in life there will be people like this and how to deal with these issues. They are also better off spending their money at a pool that will treat them the way they should be treated.