Where are Kelly & Thomas?

[MTK]

At this point it's still too early to write off Thomas/Kelly/Davis. And honestly I put more blame with Zorn on not getting these guys involved. I think the effort has been there with trying to get Kelly going though.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

At this point it's still too early to write off Thomas/Kelly/Davis. And honestly I put more blame with Zorn on not getting these guys involved. I think the effort has been there with trying to get Kelly going though.

Good points . We have had coaching changes < Gibbs - AL S. > , now Zorn . JC is still growing and has not had much time with DT or Kelly < hurt 08 > . That being said , we should be able to get more production . Could be worse , we could have all been raised in dallas or philly

[SmootSmack]

At what point though do we say "You've made it to the NFL. To have gotten this far you should know how to run certain routes"?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

At what point though do we say "You've made it to the NFL. To have gotten this far you should know how to run certain routes"?

You are right, let's just fire Hixon, and not hire anyone in his place. I pretty much guarantee we would get the same production, maybe even better!

[Hog1]

While I am....not happy (with many things) with the reciever production this team delivers. It has been an issue lo' these many years. When you take the scope of the entire team and "it's production", it is not much of a leap to suggest our newbie's may NOT have gotten the best coaching available, and THAT has played a part in their development of lack thereof?
HTTR

[sportscurmudgeon]

Where are Kelly and Thomas?

Kelly is starting at WR; Thomas is on the bench where he belongs because when he does find himself on the field for an offensive snap, he does nothing to make the coaches think they ought to do that more frequently.

The real question here ought to be:

Who thought these two guys were the WRs who would turn the Skins' lackluster WR corps into an elite WR corps?

Find the answer to that question and you may be on the path to progress...

[SBXVII]

Whoever thought the sole problem of the Skins was the WR's and thought that by picking up 2-3 new WR's would do the trick is not paying any attention to game day. I think we all know they other issues, like the O-line's blocking, JC's quarterbacking, Zorn's playcalling, etc.

This thread was talking about Kelly and Thomas so assuming we are talking about not just them but all the WR's, I hate to think we could not find a couple of productive WR's out of the bunch I listed earlier; Mix, McMullen, Mann, Eloi, Hacket, Hagens, Roydell Williams, Patton, Lloyd, Espy, McCardell, Pinkston.

I'll agree not all of them are NFL quality and we simply gave them a shot. But not all of them are camp scrubb material either. But some of this weight has to be placed on Hixon for failure to develope/coach the players.

[MTK]

Still waiting to hear what hidden gem WR that was cut from here and went on to have success with another team. That might help convince me Hixon is a poor coach.

Couldn't we run through a list of camp bodies from the past few years at every position and use that to call out that certain position coach? Just saying.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Still waiting to hear what hidden gem WR that was cut from here and went on to have success with another team. That might help convince me Hixon is a poor coach.

Couldn't we run through a list of camp bodies from the past few years at every position and use that to call out that certain position coach? Just saying.

I don't know that it's a WR that has left and developed elsewhere but more the lack of receivers he's developed since he had them. Of course a lot of it is on the player also but the coach has to bear some of the blame as well.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Still waiting to hear what hidden gem WR that was cut from here and went on to have success with another team. That might help convince me Hixon is a poor coach.

Couldn't we run through a list of camp bodies from the past few years at every position and use that to call out that certain position coach? Just saying.

You don't really want to hear answers Matty, or atleast you aren't really open to reasonable proofs short of the mystical gem you ask for. The fact is, most WR's get one shot, and they learn or don't learn from the team that brings them in. Add to that the lack of success that Hixon has had in remotely raising the performance of any wide receiver, and you have a legitimate reason to look for a better coach. It certainly isn't the only issue, but it is one constant for the last 5 years of lousy receiver growth, even when the FO has spent many picks and brought many players in over that time period.

[MTK]

I'm interested in answers, just not the half-assed ones. Or maybe the original argument is flawed lending itself to less than ideal answers, I dunno.

If Hixon isn't developing these gems, and these guys leave and aren't developed elsewhere either, perhaps they are just bums to begin with and it's a talent issue vs. coaching.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm interested in answers, just not the half-assed ones. Or maybe the original argument is flawed lending itself to less than ideal answers, I dunno.

If Hixon isn't developing these gems, and these guys leave and aren't developed elsewhere either, perhaps they are just bums to begin with and it's a talent issue vs. coaching.

I wonder how you feel about our overall ability to evaluate talent. I mean, obviously our scouts can't evaluate receivers. We have drafted and brought in bum after bum after bum, touted them all off-season as excellent workers, and then bam they all are bums. So does that translate all through out in your opinion, or is it only in receivers that we bring in bum after bum. Certainly I think our pro and college scouts are very effective at bringing good players in.

If I re-phrase the question to say "what part of our program for receivers keeps us from putting 3 quality starters on the field? " is that a better question? Are we scouting poor prospects? Are the players just worthless once they get here? Is Danny not investing enough in bringing in quality guys? Maybe there just aren't enough talented rookies in the draft for us to get the ones our scouting department really wants?

Any way I break it down, I see Hixon as replaceable. I can't believe we would do any worse, but we could do a whole lot better.

[dmvskinzfan08]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm interested in answers, just not the half-assed ones. Or maybe the original argument is flawed lending itself to less than ideal answers, I dunno.

If Hixon isn't developing these gems, and these guys leave and aren't developed elsewhere either, perhaps they are just bums to begin with and it's a talent issue vs. coaching.

Matty you are being very cynical. You know full well what this person is trying to say. Giving a name is not necessary when you look at Hixon's full body of work as far as coaching WRs goes. Maybe it is the talent that is being brought in. Maybe its the evaluation process. But overall a coach should make players better. If you are a WR coach you would be teaching your receivers the tools they need to be successful. He hasn't. Plain and simple. Whether they are a 1st rounders or undrafted he hasn't yielded any results from the players that are brought in. ARE and Moss were already vets before they came to this team. So who is he improving? He isn't doing that well as a teacher when we bring in WRs and they can barely make a play. Zorn says Mitchell does not know the short routes. How long does it take to learn? Who is supposed to teach him? If you are a teacher you bring the best out of a student. You might not be able to make a F student a A student. But you should atleast be able to get them to a D or C-. If not. Why is he here?

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by jamf

I think the issue is that these guys are still on the team. There are 10 WRs drafted in the 2nd or 3rd round of the 2008 draft who contribute to their teams or atleast show flashes of ability. We see nothing in return from Kelly and Thomas.
I'm concerned that Cerrato won't cut a guy he drafted because it would confirm that he made a mistake drafting that player.
Also, Thomas needs to get his butt on special teams. He is too gifted of an athlete to not be a Gunner or returner and it's not like we want to save him for WR.

They need to be in the position to make plays.. it looks like Zorn is trying to wean Kelly in, but admitted to using Thomas mostly to open up other guys which doesn't make a lot of sense to me

I don't know what's keeping him from getting opportunities other than playcalling.. I guess that you could blame Hixon if he's not developing properly/correcting mistakes/learning..

as far as special teams, no clue... maybe danny smith likes others over him.. though we do use him some in returns

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Have any of those guys gone on to be stars elsewhere?

I'm not sure what tossing up a list of camp bodies really shows.

Not so much but you don't find a lot of teams willing to take on a guy who couldn't get playing time after a couple of years either.