Supreme Court Upholds Health Care Mandate

[HailGreen28]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

The full law doesn't go into effect until 2014, when the exchanges are up and running. What analysis could possibly capture it's effect on healthcare inflation and spending? We still don't know the number of people that will join the pool.

Are there any estimates that costs and spending don't rise in the next few years?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

[quote=Giantone;923279]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Sorry Sammy but this ,this is the bullshit that the GOP throws out there to scare everybody over the arge of 70..and it just ain't true.

Rationing happens in other countries with socialized medicine, why won't it happen here?

What CNN Didn't Ask About Canada Health Care Rationing | NewsBusters.org

Canada's ObamaCare Precedent - WSJ.com

Even the Physicians for National Health agree their will be rationing. Check out the FAQ question on "will there be rationing".
Single-Payer FAQ | Physicians for a National Health Program

It's common knowledge that UK and Canada for example set an amount the gov't will pay for healthcare, then it works to stay within that amount....how can rationing not happen in that environment?

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Lotus

One would hope that we are doing things differently than Hoover.

haha, agree.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

SS33, you sources about the costs are off, my man. The CBO this Spring projected the law would cut the deficit by $50 Billion more than they originally thought. I would suggest you take a gander at the real numbers.

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fil...0Estimates.pdf

Ezra Klein gives a good breakdown of the numbers here.

CBO: Health reform to cut deficit by $50 billion more than we thought - The Washington Post

Also, you say that $500B in new taxes on ALL Americans. Well that's not true either. Without even breaking out the calculator the law doesn't affect ALL Americans, so how could it jack up taxes on ALL Americans?

You make no mention of these benefits, some of which have kicked in now. Some later when the law fully kicks in 2014.

No mention of $800 billion tax credits for lower income families.
Insurance companies can't drop you because of pre-existing condition.
No mention of closing the Medicare doughnut hole for seniors

You are absolutely correct, after reading your link my numbers were off. I stated $ 700B added to the defecit....and per the CBO estimate the number is over $ 1T. My bad.

[12thMan]

You're still kinda missing the point or you didn't read it. The legislation is projected to pay for itself or come close. If you only take into consideration outlays and spending and don't factor in revenue and savings well, of course, it appears to explode the deficit.

It doesn’t include the Medicare cuts, or many of the tax increases, that pay for the legislation. “CBO and JCT have previously estimated that the ACA will, on net, reduce budget deficits over the 2012–2021 period; that estimate of the overall budgetary impact of the ACA has not been updated.”

The bottom line is this, CBO will roll out more concrete deficit reduction numbers at some point in the future. I imagine more than once. Each year a new projection is done the legislation tends to cost a little more...and save more.

[12thMan]

One more thing SS33, your $700B estimate is looking at a different time frame when the law was originally passed. The first two years of it didn't cost much because there wasn't much implementation. The new estimates cover 2011-2012.

On a side note every year it costs more to repeal the law, which explodes the deficit. CBO says repeal would costs $230 billion. Basically Republicans are full of shit when they say repeal and replace.

[saden1]

Its really comical to hear the GOP talk about how they will cut taxes, increase defense spending, increase Medicare/Medicaid spending and reduce the deficit. If they can do that and get a better cbo score I will be the first to vote republican every election.

[Giantone]

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;923298]

Originally Posted by Giantone

Rationing happens in other countries with socialized medicine, why won't it happen here?

What CNN Didn't Ask About Canada Health Care Rationing | NewsBusters.org

Canada's ObamaCare Precedent - WSJ.com

Even the Physicians for National Health agree their will be rationing. Check out the FAQ question on "will there be rationing".
Single-Payer FAQ | Physicians for a National Health Program

It's common knowledge that UK and Canada for example set an amount the gov't will pay for healthcare, then it works to stay within that amount....how can rationing not happen in that environment?

Doctors will still be making money,very,very ,very good money.Sammy CNN,really,I would'nt quote them from now on...according to them the healthcare Law was shot down!Remeber this is still a matter of choice and you can get whatever it is you need done wherever you want it done,you keep saying the UK and Canada........well we ain't them.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

One more thing SS33, your $700B estimate is looking at a different time frame when the law was originally passed. The first two years of it didn't cost much because there wasn't much implementation. The new estimates cover 2011-2012.

On a side note every year it costs more to repeal the law, which explodes the deficit. CBO says repeal would costs $230 billion. Basically Republicans are full of shit when they say repeal and replace.

.........this.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

You're still kinda missing the point or you didn't read it. The legislation is projected to pay for itself or come close. If you only take into consideration outlays and spending and don't factor in revenue and savings well, of course, it appears to explode the deficit.

It doesn’t include the Medicare cuts, or many of the tax increases, that pay for the legislation. “CBO and JCT have previously estimated that the ACA will, on net, reduce budget deficits over the 2012–2021 period; that estimate of the overall budgetary impact of the ACA has not been updated.”

The bottom line is this, CBO will roll out more concrete deficit reduction numbers at some point in the future. I imagine more than once. Each year a new projection is done the legislation tends to cost a little more...and save more.

Yea right, please name a major federal program that has not run way over its projected cost when it became law.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Yea right, please name a major federal program that has not run way over its projected cost when it became law.

Got me there. But given that healthcare represents 17% of GDP, it's the one that has the biggest drain on the economy, doing nothing and repeal this and repeal that isn't an option any longer.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Got me there. But given that healthcare represents 17% of GDP, it's the one that has the biggest drain on the economy, doing nothing and repeal this and repeal that isn't an option any longer.

Not sure if I would say its a total drain. Isn't that 17% of GDP going back into the system one way or another. Medical providers, hospitals, medical equipment, nurses, ambulance, construction, etc... make a living of medical cost and that 17%. I agree we need to cut cost but this is not the way.

[12thMan]

This is absolutely the way. We have more waste, fraud and abuse within our healthcare system than any other. We spend more on healthcare than any other industrialized nation. It's really now or never. That repeal bullshit is for the birds.

[Chico23231]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

This is absolutely the way. We have more waste, fraud and abuse within our healthcare system than any other. We spend more on healthcare than any other industrialized nation. It's really now or never. That repeal bullshit is for the birds.

How come the right fails to look at the waste, fraud and mismanagement in the DoD? This is latest from them:

Again in 2011, the GAO could not "render an opinion on the 2011 consolidated financial statements of the federal government", with a major obstacle again being "serious financial management problems at the Department of Defense (DOD) that made its financial statements unauditable".[19]

In December 2011, the GAO found that "neither the Navy nor the Marine Corps have implemented effective processes for reconciling their FBWT." According to the GAO, "An agency’s FBWT account is similar in concept to a corporate bank account. The difference is that instead of a cash balance, FBWT represents unexpended spending authority in appropriations." In addition, "As of April 2011, there were more than $22 billion unmatched disbursements and collections affecting more than 10,000 lines of accounting."[20]

So how come we are good with this? Cut the pentagon's budget from ear to ear until we can at least get an audit of there expendures. As a citizen im outraged by this, why arent others?

[12thMan]

Naw, they're just concerned with ObamaScare and delusional talking points.

Mind you Obamacare was oringially conceived by Republicans, instituted by the Republican nominee, and upheld by a Republican Supreme Court Justice. So much for socialism I guess.