Around the NFL...Week 4 Style

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

The problem with this line of thinking is that Walsh only won with Montana, Noll only won with Bradshaw, Jimmy Johnson only won with Aikman, Belichik only won with Brady, ect... The list goes on. And a lot of people believe that those teams could have won as constructed with a lot of other coaches at the helm.

If the point is that Joe Gibbs was a great coach because of 3 SB's with 3 different QB' and RB's, then im with you 100%.

If the point is that the only coaches who are considered good coaches have to have won SB's with high schoolers to prove that they can outcoach the other sideline. Under that scenario, there is no such thing as a good coach, they are all terrible.

I dont believe the problem is Shanny the coach. I believe the problem is Shanny the GM. Its easy to look outcoached when other teams are more talented than yours. I figured it would take several years after Vinny left office to make up for his mistakes, but its year 3, and we still have massive holes all over the place. Allen needs to have that final say on player acquisition imo.

Gibbs success with three different QBs most definitely puts him in a whole nuther category IMHO. I mean this is something football fans, not just skins fans, recognize.

Some of the other SB coaches you mentioned are decent comparisons to Shanahan, but most are not. Belichick for example built the Patriots into the perennial contender they are. Shanahan did not do so with the Broncos, period. He walked into his QB, defense, and to the best of my memory all those stars except for Davis.

We agree Shanahan is a lousy GM/talent evaluator. But I don't see anything telling me he's a great coach. In fact, I don't see any great coaching on this team. Without RG3 we'd be a 2 or 3 win team IMHO, so you could say Shanny has actually regressed this team from the one he inherited. His defense is grossly inferior to the one he inherited. That defense needed updating to be sure, but it was consistently stingy on points. A little boring? Sure, turnovers are fun. But it gave the offense a great chance to win most games. In addition, Mike and his kiddo can't develop a starting caliber OT to save their lives, or more accurately their QBs life. Trent is pretty much at the same level as he was when drafted. The other OTs are garbage, just garbage. And a lot of this has to do with preparation from what I can tell.

My bottom line is I don't see Mike coaching a winning team again. Give him the Niners or the Ravens today and they go 7-9.

Off rant.

[Meks]

Right now cleveland d> our d ..... joe hayden> any of our corners ... love that former gator..
clevrland O line > our o line ...

I think ee would struggle against clevrland.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by los panda

my dad grew up in orlando before their were any fl teams. the browns games were broadcast most, how could you now be a fan of jim brown? so he's a die-hard browns fan. i call them my 2nd favorite team. i'm always pulling for them, they've been wallowing in the muck (of avarice - according to jake the snake) since byner got stripped.

they had a good draft this year, have several solid pieces, things are looking up. i'm just glad i picked them last night

Id rather be the 30th most valuable team in revenue, and the number one most valuable team in playoff and superbowl wins. who gives a shit about net worth of your franchise. That might mean something in baseball, not in this sport.

[RedskinRat]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Id rather be the 30th most valuable team in revenue, and the number one most valuable team in playoff and superbowl wins. who gives a shit about net worth of your franchise. That might mean something in baseball, not in this sport.

Agreed. It's not like we get a share of the revenue, we do get to enjoy the wins though.

HTTR!

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

The problem with this line of thinking is that Walsh only won with Montana, Noll only won with Bradshaw, Jimmy Johnson only won with Aikman, Belichik only won with Brady, ect... The list goes on. And a lot of people believe that those teams could have won as constructed with a lot of other coaches at the helm.

If the point is that Joe Gibbs was a great coach because of 3 SB's with 3 different QB' and RB's, then im with you 100%.

If the point is that the only coaches who are considered good coaches have to have won SB's with high schoolers to prove that they can outcoach the other sideline. Under that scenario, there is no such thing as a good coach, they are all terrible.

I dont believe the problem is Shanny the coach. I believe the problem is Shanny the GM. Its easy to look outcoached when other teams are more talented than yours. I figured it would take several years after Vinny left office to make up for his mistakes, but its year 3, and we still have massive holes all over the place. Allen needs to have that final say on player acquisition imo.

Some might say Gibbs should have never returned to DC to coach the second time, but completely different circumstances.

Mike Shanahan won 2 super bowls, yes. Those 2 super bowls with a STUD qb like Elway. After Elway, he ran the Broncos organization in the ground. Not so bad the first 2 or 3 years after Elway, but then they REALLY started to go downhill. I lived in Colorado Springs at the time. I heard the talk radio around there. Noone thought Shanahan deserved the job after 2004. He completely screwed that defense. He has shown nothing but the same tendencies here, and I just hope that our stud QB can do everything in his power to get us to a superbowl in spite of a HC and OC that prefers to have him run a dozen designed runs a game against linebackers that eat glass for breakfast. I really hope his plan is better than that, cause Griffin is the ONLY reason we were even competitive in any of the games this year. I doubt anyone will attribute any of our success to any schemes or gameplan. I just hope the young fella stays healthy.

[punch it in]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Some might say Gibbs should have never returned to DC to coach the second time, but completely different circumstances.

Mike Shanahan won 2 super bowls, yes. Those 2 super bowls with a STUD qb like Elway. After Elway, he ran the Broncos organization in the ground. Not so bad the first 2 or 3 years after Elway, but then they REALLY started to go downhill. I lived in Colorado Springs at the time. I heard the talk radio around there. Noone thought Shanahan deserved the job after 2004. He completely screwed that defense. He has shown nothing but the same tendencies here, and I just hope that our stud QB can do everything in his power to get us to a superbowl in spite of a HC and OC that prefers to have him run a dozen designed runs a game against linebackers that eat glass for breakfast. I really hope his plan is better than that, cause Griffin is the ONLY reason we were even competitive in any of the games this year. I doubt anyone will attribute any of our success to any schemes or gameplan. I just hope the young fella stays healthy.

Gibbs went to the playoffs twice. Shanny hasnt even sniffed em yet.

[SmootSmack]

I think it's a bit unfair to assume Elway, Yoing, Plummer, Griese, Cutler, etc had success in spite of Shanahan. And it's too early to write off the young OL talent we just drafted this year. And how much better do you expect TW to be than when he was drafted? He wasn't exactly drafted as a developmental prospect. And are we just going to overlook all the Browns flaws? And why are we even talking about the Redkins vs Browns yet anyway?

[SmootSmack]

And people have to stop acting like all RG3 has done and all he will do is run. And stop putting the blame in Mike and Kyle when the offense is struggling yet not give them an iota of credit when the offense is successful. And don't botch about our coaches not playing to their players' strengths and then whine when they do.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by punch it in

Gibbs went to the playoffs twice. Shanny hasnt even sniffed em yet.

Thats my point m8. Some people say he made a mistake coming back. But he had a break in service, and still came back and took a rag tag team to the playoffs. Shanny hasn't been to the playoffs, in what, 9 years???????

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

Some might say Gibbs should have never returned to DC to coach the second time, but completely different circumstances.

Mike Shanahan won 2 super bowls, yes. Those 2 super bowls with a STUD qb like Elway. After Elway, he ran the Broncos organization in the ground. Not so bad the first 2 or 3 years after Elway, but then they REALLY started to go downhill. I lived in Colorado Springs at the time. I heard the talk radio around there. Noone thought Shanahan deserved the job after 2004. He completely screwed that defense. He has shown nothing but the same tendencies here, and I just hope that our stud QB can do everything in his power to get us to a superbowl in spite of a HC and OC that prefers to have him run a dozen designed runs a game against linebackers that eat glass for breakfast. I really hope his plan is better than that, cause Griffin is the ONLY reason we were even competitive in any of the games this year. I doubt anyone will attribute any of our success to any schemes or gameplan. I just hope the young fella stays healthy.

If its about winning without a stud qb, then Brian Billick is the greatest coach ever. Although you removed the "wrong" from Joe Gibbs return line, what does that have to do with my point.

As for Denver going downhill after Elway, was Shanny the GM there as well. If so, thats why they went down, not because of Shanny the coach. He took Jake the snake and made him into a pro bowler. Jake Plummer was a terrible QB.

Elway leaves, they drop from SB champ to 6-10. Then go on to have several 10 win seasons including a 13 win season. He had two losing seasons in Denver, one of those following a massive 2 SB hangover AND losing a STUD QB. If losing a STUD QB such as Elway, then rebuilding that 6-10 team into a 13 win team at one point means he ran it into the ground, then what exactly do you call a good coach? When the expectation is 21 undefeated seasons and 14 SB's IN A ROW, such as Denver fans expected after 2 with Elway, of course they are going to complain about a 13 win season that doesnt end in a SB victory. Would you as a Redskin fan complain right now over a 13 win season and a playoff run? I say yes, because taking a team that had lost 10 games a couple of season before and turning them into a 13 win team is apparently your definition of running them into the ground.

Oh btw, that 13 win season, was in 05'. Ya know, the year that Broncos fans say Shanny should have never been there. 04' 10-6, 03' 10-6. So Shanny went 10-6, 10-6, 13-3 in consecutive seasons. And then you use these 3 seasons as absolute undeniable proof of the Broncos being ran into the ground... Really?

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

And people have to stop acting like all RG3 has done and all he will do is run. And stop putting the blame in Mike and Kyle when the offense is struggling yet not give them an iota of credit when the offense is successful. And don't botch about our coaches not playing to their players' strengths and then whine when they do.

You want to go along and have blind faith in a guy that was 47-17 with Elway, and then barely .500 without, and had one of the leagues worst defenses for going on 5 years his last seasons in Denver, go right ahead. I thought baseball was the only sport that gave jobs and big contracts for past performances, I guess I was wrong, because Shanahan did absolutely NOTHING in his last 10 years with the Broncos to warrant his hire (one playoff victory). I want to have faith in Shanahan, and I try to, but I believe that there are better people, or should I say better coaches out there than him, and ones that would do a better job. Not saying that I have all the answers, but I believe that there are many people that could be doing a much better job than he is. Sucks that its gonna take 4 or 5 years of below .500 football to figure out that RG3 might have been the only good decision he made during his tenure in Washington.

[Mechanix544]

Originally Posted by Skinzman

If its about winning without a stud qb, then Brian Billick is the greatest coach ever. Although you removed the "wrong" from Joe Gibbs return line, what does that have to do with my point.

As for Denver going downhill after Elway, was Shanny the GM there as well. If so, thats why they went down, not because of Shanny the coach. He took Jake the snake and made him into a pro bowler. Jake Plummer was a terrible QB.

Elway leaves, they drop from SB champ to 6-10. Then go on to have several 10 win seasons including a 13 win season. He had two losing seasons in Denver, one of those following a massive 2 SB hangover AND losing a STUD QB. If losing a STUD QB such as Elway, then rebuilding that 6-10 team into a 13 win team at one point means he ran it into the ground, then what exactly do you call a good coach? When the expectation is 21 undefeated seasons and 14 SB's IN A ROW, such as Denver fans expected after 2 with Elway, of course they are going to complain about a 13 win season that doesnt end in a SB victory. Would you as a Redskin fan complain right now over a 13 win season and a playoff run? I say yes, because taking a team that had lost 10 games a couple of season before and turning them into a 13 win team is apparently your definition of running them into the ground.

Oh btw, that 13 win season, was in 05'. Ya know, the year that Broncos fans say Shanny should have never been there. 04' 10-6, 03' 10-6. So Shanny went 10-6, 10-6, 13-3 in consecutive seasons. And then you use these 3 seasons as absolute undeniable proof of the Broncos being ran into the ground... Really?

The guy was 1-4 in the playoffs after Elway. He did NOTHING during a very long stretch. And he had some of the worst defenses in the league during his tenure. Joe Gibbs won twice as many victories in his short time back than SHanahan did in, what, 10 or 11 years with a program that HE built? Sorry, your not gonna tell me because Shanahan was not the GM, that he didn't make the personell decisions in Denver. I lived there, and the guy had the last word, every Bronco fan knew it. Its just he couldn't do squat with the team that he himself built, and after 3 years here, name something other than RG3 that he has accomplished.

I guess there is Larry Johnson and OJ Atogwe.

[Skinzman]

Originally Posted by Mechanix544

The guy was 1-4 in the playoffs after Elway. He did NOTHING during a very long stretch. And he had some of the worst defenses in the league during his tenure. Joe Gibbs won twice as many victories in his short time back than SHanahan did in, what, 10 or 11 years with a program that HE built? Sorry, your not gonna tell me because Shanahan was not the GM, that he didn't make the personell decisions in Denver. I lived there, and the guy had the last word, every Bronco fan knew it. Its just he couldn't do squat with the team that he himself built, and after 3 years here, name something other than RG3 that he has accomplished.

I guess there is Larry Johnson and OJ Atogwe.

Learn to read... I asked if he was the GM, and went onto state that if he was, that was the problem.

So try again after you reread what I typed because even though you quoted me, you didnt respond to what I had typed.

Editing to add: Stud qb... bad defenses... Kinda sounds like Belichik the last few years

[Hog1]

Is it some......other Skins team putting up 30+ points a game?
The same team, avg like.....16-18 a game last year?
....just sayin'

[SmootSmack]

Really, the only thing he's accomplished here is adding RG3? This conversation just got pointless.