With the 5th pick in the draft the Washington Redskins select...

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

a different question: How many drop down trades would be too many. For example, dropping from 5 to 11 takes us from the true can't miss talent to good scouting gets you solid talent, and maybe find a gem. But does a 2nd trade from 11 to 16 take us out of that range, to just throwing darts talent. Suppose for those two trades you picked up 2 to 3 high caliber picks( rounds 1/2 this year or next) and 3-4 medium picks (rounds 3/4 this year)

would you stop after the first trade, would you gamble on the 2nd, and is it even in the realm to throw a 3 trade in?

Or no trade no way, no how?

We need an infusion of talent across the roster. At this point if we picked up some 2nds and 3rds and moved down into the middle of Rd 1 I'd be ok. If we ended up with the middle 1st, a couple 2nds, a 3rd, and a 4th it would be worth it right now.

That's four potential impact picks and/or ammunition to move around and get specific guys we have targeted.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

a different question: How many drop down trades would be too many. For example, dropping from 5 to 11 takes us from the true can't miss talent to good scouting gets you solid talent, and maybe find a gem. But does a 2nd trade from 11 to 16 take us out of that range, to just throwing darts talent. Suppose for those two trades you picked up 2 to 3 high caliber picks( rounds 1/2 this year or next) and 3-4 medium picks (rounds 3/4 this year)

would you stop after the first trade, would you gamble on the 2nd, and is it even in the realm to throw a 3 trade in?

Or no trade no way, no how?

More picks equals more chances to hit on a starter but we shouldn't be trading too low:

The chance of a bust in the NFL draft | Datascope Analytics

Also why trading picks with Tampa Bay in the Goldson trade is negligible.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by DYoungJelly

More picks equals more chances to hit on a starter but we shouldn't be trading too low:

The chance of a bust in the NFL draft | Datascope Analytics

Also why trading picks with Tampa Bay in the Goldson trade is negligible.

For people wanting more proof why Scot's the guy, this chart be da***d.

Scot McCloughan and the NFL's Best and Worst Drafting GMs - Hogs Haven

Also, for those in need of draft day Kool-Aid.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

For people wanting more proof why Scot's the guy, this chart be da***d.

Scot McCloughan and the NFL's Best and Worst Drafting GMs - Hogs Haven

Also, for those in need of draft day Kool-Aid.

Good breakdown.

I think it's accurate to say SM is a top 5 talent evaluator. As long as Snyder stays out of his hair (and SM's own demons stay under control) he's definitely capable of building a winner here.

[JoeRedskin]

I think the consensus is that this is a draft deep in talent beyond the first couple rounds at OL and OLB. Two areas of need. Also, again, I think the consensus is that there is a drop-off in talent after the first 5-6 picks, another drop after 12 and then talent from 13 to the middle of the second is pretty much equivalent and dependent on draft boards and need will play a bigger role in teams selections.

So, for all the reasons discussed about trusting in Scot McC and his work prior to this particular draft, I would want as many top 100 picks as we can get this year. I have a good feeling about any pick McC makes in the first three rounds and am not sure anyone in the top 10 who would be available to us is likely to be a long-term game changer. While I don't want to trade out of the first, a couple trade downs that land us a couple extra 2's and/or 3's is fine by me.

[NYCskinfan82]

If possible I would like 5 to 6 picks in the top 100 so I figure that takes at least 2 trade backs. McLovin do your thang.

[KI Skins Fan]

^ Which year(s) is the author saying that Dan Snyder was the GM of Skins and made the draft picks?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

^ Which year(s) is the author saying that Dan Snyder was the GM of Skins and made the draft picks?

I don't think he specified, but he pointedly said he was avoiding getting into the quagmire that has been the Skins FO

For the Redskins executives you may notice that there's some overlap with Vinny Cerrato and Dan Snyder. I am counting the entire time that both men were here as time spent as GMs, because at a minimum each of them were some part of a decision-making duo or triumvirate. The same thing goes for Bruce Allen and Mike Shanahan as well. The focus of this study was not on the minutia and semantics of the Redskins' dysfunctional hierarchy.

[Irrefutable]

a scenario I like :

Seven-round Redskins mock draft, take two - The Washington Post

[30gut]

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

"I'm of the mindset that you a 34 defense "needs" 1 premium OLB pass rusher..."

That's not saying we need only 1 top-notch edge rusher?

Huh?

Just for the sake of accuracy I'm gonna clarify this...

Originally Posted by 30gut

I'm of the mindset that you a 34 defense "needs" 1 premium OLB pass rusher and having a 2nd while nice isn't something to chase after at the expense of other positions.

Notice I even put the word "needs" in quotes...yet....

Originally Posted by KI Skins Fan

2. Since when is one top-notch edge rusher enough?

To which I responded:

Originally Posted by 30gut

Who said having one was enough? I didn't.

Reminding you that I never said that 'one top-notch edge rusher' is "enough".

On any given play in a base 34 only 1 OLB is rushing at a time. Numerous top 34 defenses have been built with having one premiere pass rushing OLB. So yeah I believe a 34 only 'needs' 1 premium OLB pass rusher but like I said its nice to have a 2nd.

I hope you understand the difference.
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I personally don't have anything against Fowler or Beasley as prospects nor as fits for this defense. Even if they're rotational players they would still provide a huge impact if they can bring the heat on 3rd downs. But I think we could find similar production from an edge rusher later in the draft.

Cooper on the other hand imho is easily the most complete WR on the time day 1. He's better at beating press, running routes and tracking the ball then Garcon and he runs a complete route tree (including routes that go inside numbers) unlike DeSean (whom I love, best deep threat in the game). Also, Coop could be the feature WR as early as 2016 when either Garcon or DeSean are both gone and Coop would cost less money to boot. I don't think there is another WR in the draft that brings the skills that Coop would bring from day 1 they only WR project that comes close for me is Nelson Agholor. Very similar skillset to Coop that also adds return ability KR/PR but isn't as polished.

[Paintrain]

My top choices for the #5 pick:
1. Cooper - We aren't a player away from being a good team, we need to build with elite players. Cooper could be an instant and long term #1 WR in the AJ Green mold. Building with a long term vision, you grab those players when you can.
2. Beasley - While I think he eventually can become a 3 down player for at least the first couple of seasons, he will be a pass rushing/nickel specialist and excel in that role. That's not a bad thing with Kerrigan and Murphy already in place, the more pressure the better.
3. Williams - Dominant from what I've seen, not sure if he's a perfect 3-4 fit though. But like Cooper, build with elite players. If he can become part of a shutdown defensive line then I'll take it.

[Irrefutable]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

My top choices for the #5 pick:
1. Cooper - We aren't a player away from being a good team, we need to build with elite players. Cooper could be an instant and long term #1 WR in the AJ Green mold. Building with a long term vision, you grab those players when you can.
.

if they take Cooper the Redskins will be spending about $25 million on wide receivers

[JoeRedskin]

So? We can afford it this year and it sets us up for financial flexibility next year.

Next year, we either renegotiate with BOTH Garcon and Jax OR find a new WR 1/2 while trying to negotiate long term deals with Williams and Kerrigan. If we have Cooper we can let either PG or DJax go and still have two solid WR's.

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[Irrefutable]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

So? We can afford it this year and it sets us up for financial flexibility next year.

Next year, we either renegotiate with BOTH Garcon and Jax OR find a new WR 1/2 while trying to negotiate long term deals with Williams and Kerrigan. If we have Cooper we can let either PG or DJax go and still have two solid WR's.

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There are more urgent needs than WR - OL, OLB, S, DL, and TE

Next year RGIII, and Knighton either gets $$$$ or are cut/traded. The cap problems continue.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by Irrefutable

There are more urgent needs than WR - OL, OLB, S, DL, and TE.

Oh, so your building for next year's immediate needs? I thought we were committed to a long term build rather than simply pissing on the fire closest to our feet.

Originally Posted by Irrefutable

Next year RGIII, and Knighton either gets $$$$ or are cut/traded. The cap problems continue.

Name one player we have cut or failed to obtain based on mismanagement of the cap (as opposed to the penalty levied by the NFL).

If you're concerned about next year's cap, BTW, Cooper makes more sense b/c we can clear a ton of cap space by cutting DJax or Garcon and still have a solid starting WR tandem.


Again, if any of the OLB pass-rushers were seen as guaranteed "high floor" guys, sure, you take one of them over Cooper. None are. Each has flaws. As I have said before, at 5, I would rather pick the player with the best chance at success at this level as opposed to a guy who may be great but may bust.

Let me ask you this, if instead of Cooper and Fowler/Beasley/Ray/Gregory, the choice were Art Monk or Brian Orakpo, who do you pick?